Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="fanboy2000" data-source="post: 4939977" data-attributes="member: 19998"><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/264420-removing-homogenity-d-d-4th-edition-6.html#post4916219" target="_blank">Compared to what I like, I think its a great example of 4e's homogeneity</a>. It doesn't surprise me that the example I came-up with shows my own bias.See, I don't think that's true. Sadie has one big thing going for her: experience. She not just a little experienced, she's an epic level character. Think about it, she spends almost 24 hours a day/7 days a week with a guy who's skill in acrobatics is, literarily, epic. She's watched him preform all those acrobatic stunts in their time together. I'm sure that, in all that camping out in the wilderness between cities the conversation turns to acrobatic skill. PCs spend more time together than some married people. It's not formal training by any stretch of the imagination, but it would seem to me that some of it is going to rub off on her.This is what I love about the level mechanic in 4e, it represents the basic level of competency people acquire just by going out and doing stuff. That is very realistic to me because I've noticed that, as people grow older, they learn the basics of things that they never invested any formal training in just by virtue of living. It's nice because it recognizes that people gain a basic level of competency in things outside their specialization. That attitude isn't very popular in the US right now. It seems we favor uber-specialization over general competency right now. But I think that it's a valid way to model character advancement. That is exactly what I would expect from a challenge that's described as moderate. If I understand what you said, you're saying that a 20% success rate is "pretty damn good." That surprises me. If I knew that only had a 20% chance of success at something, I'd find another way. That just seems like common sense.Some of them are, but that's to be expected. Many important skills have significant differences to me. At level 24, Sadie has a +22 diplomacy while Adrian only has a +13. Adrian has a +23 to perception while Sadie only has +13. Adrian has a stealth and thievery of +25 and +26 respectfully, while Sadie has only +12 in both of them.While Adrian's AC is indeed only 2 greater than Sadie's, I would hardly call Adrian's 25 fort and 26 will "right around 30." Also, Saide's fort is 30, five higher than Adrian's. This seems fairly significant to me. But then again, as you've pointed out, what's significant to me isn't significant to you. Generally speaking attacks seem to hit or miss by only a few points, so I consider a difference of five or more important because it means the lower defense will get hit a lot more often.I'm glad you replied, and I'm glad I gave some hard numbers because now I understand better where you are coming from. I consider a 20% success rate hard. That said, it seems like, far from you're complaints being difficult to address in 4e, it would easy to implement harder DCs + a houserule that doesn't allow PCs to apply half their level to d20 skill checks unless the skill is on their class skill list.Well, they won't get the same answer over and over again because 1) they won't always be challenged by things at their level. Sometimes thing will above their level and sometimes things will be below their level. 2) They always be rolling the same skills. And 3) Even within their level, the DCs will vary.Again, this is beauty of level in 4e, the DM can vary the difficulty of something by varying the level of the hazard, trap, or NPC. The level mechanic allows a DM to pepper the world with obstacles of various levels, making the campaign truly seasoned to taste. The tool in 4e is simple: variety: variety in level, variety in DC, variety in type. Level progression is (mostly) linear at the same rate for all stats, making it easy for a DM to figure out how to make something easier or more difficult for the PCs. The tool is quite elegant.I would expect an epic level character find heroic obstacles easy to the point of not a problem. Reflex and fort defenses that exceed the mage's capacity to escape from don't seem to be uncommon at level 24.</blockquote>

Verification