Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Removing homogenity from 4e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4943041" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>No, that's not the end. That's too simplistic. Just because you have more raw choices (and I don't mean rules as written raw, just base choices) does not mean you have more diversity in play. If a segment of those choices are better than others, then you wind up with fewer real choices.</p><p></p><p>That's an issue I'm trying to bring up. Because the skill rules (and most of the chargen rules for that matter) in 3e so heavily reward laser beam focus and actively punish not focusing, you don't actually have that many real choices. Yes, you can have 2 ranks in Knowledge Arcana, but, by double digit levels, that's just a waste of time. It won't do anything.</p><p></p><p>A choice that leads to a dead end is not a real choice IMO. Now Primal's game moved around that by changing the rules, and that's fine. But, that's not what we are discussing. We're not talking about Primal's game, we're talking about 3e D&D. IMO, you actually don't have the diversity you claim in 3e, simply because when the pencil hits the paper, so many of the choices are so obviously bad that they become more or less invalid.</p><p></p><p>So, most characters wind up being extreme experts in a very small number of skills (barring rogues of course) and being completely incompetent in the rest. That's not diversity, that's actually homogeniety. Everyone is a small area expert, large area incompetent. Yes, you can still be a small area expert in 4e, but, because of the way the mechanics work, you can actually spread that around a bit and still be capable of success (albeit not likely).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4943041, member: 22779"] No, that's not the end. That's too simplistic. Just because you have more raw choices (and I don't mean rules as written raw, just base choices) does not mean you have more diversity in play. If a segment of those choices are better than others, then you wind up with fewer real choices. That's an issue I'm trying to bring up. Because the skill rules (and most of the chargen rules for that matter) in 3e so heavily reward laser beam focus and actively punish not focusing, you don't actually have that many real choices. Yes, you can have 2 ranks in Knowledge Arcana, but, by double digit levels, that's just a waste of time. It won't do anything. A choice that leads to a dead end is not a real choice IMO. Now Primal's game moved around that by changing the rules, and that's fine. But, that's not what we are discussing. We're not talking about Primal's game, we're talking about 3e D&D. IMO, you actually don't have the diversity you claim in 3e, simply because when the pencil hits the paper, so many of the choices are so obviously bad that they become more or less invalid. So, most characters wind up being extreme experts in a very small number of skills (barring rogues of course) and being completely incompetent in the rest. That's not diversity, that's actually homogeniety. Everyone is a small area expert, large area incompetent. Yes, you can still be a small area expert in 4e, but, because of the way the mechanics work, you can actually spread that around a bit and still be capable of success (albeit not likely). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Removing homogenity from 4e
Top