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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Removing save-each-turn mechanic
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<blockquote data-quote="Skyscraper" data-source="post: 6779723" data-attributes="member: 48518"><p>I'm still toying with spellcasting houserules - per a few other threads I posted here, the feedback of which having been, honestly, quite simply great.</p><p></p><p>As part of a few houserules that I'm considering (you can see my <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?473827-Variant-spellcasting" target="_blank">variant spellcasting</a> thread if you want details), I was initially thinking about increasing the spellpower of spells that allow a save when the spell is cast plus a save at the end of each turn, to instead allow only a save when the spell is cast plus a single save at the end of the target's first turn (item #6 in that other thread).</p><p></p><p>I'm now considering another alternate rule instead: <strong>to allow a single save when the spell is cast, period, in the old-school style. But to bump up all those spells of one level.</strong> So Hold Person would become a third level spell.</p><p></p><p>I'm continuing to think about the the save-each-round mechanic and wish to engage this community in this thought process, for those that wish to discuss this.</p><p></p><p>The save-each-round rule of course makes plenty of sense and I won't argue that a player might find a battle boring if his PC is paralysed for the entirey battle. I played a lot of AD&D, 3.5 D&D, 4E D&D, a bit of 5E, and a lot of DDM (D&D miniatures tabletop strategy that uses the save-each-round mechanic) - plus other systems including retroclones and the like. So I'm familiar with both styles of play, i.e. save-each-round and save-or-suck.</p><p></p><p>What I like about save-or-suck, is that spellcasting really matters. I understand that this can be seen as relatively downgrading non-caster PCs, but I don't see it that way at all - I like the challenge <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />. I understand that many players don't like that playstyle, and I respect that. Like, totally.</p><p></p><p>Concerning the of course valid point of players finding it boring to stand around while their PC is paralysed, I'll mention that (1) NPC casters and monsters that can paralyse are not necessarily frequent in my low-ish magic homebrew setting; and (2) players should consider having Lesser Restauration, Dispel Magic or the like prepared to counter this eventuality. It's likely that most PCs will not remain paralysed if players indeed opt to have counterspells prepared (in the large sense of "counterspell").</p><p></p><p>What are the thoughts of this community about the rule of allowing a single save when the spell is cast, old-school style; and to bump up all those spells of one level? <strong>In particular, do you find that those spells would be relatively balanced compared to other spells of their new level?</strong></p><p></p><p>For reference, @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=72051" target="_blank">Wolf118</a></u></strong></em> digged up a non-exhaustive, but useful, list of spells that use the save-each-round mechanic, in <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471127-Increasing-spell-power/page6&p=6745651&viewfull=1#post6745651" target="_blank">this post</a> in another thread I started on a similar topic. Here is the list he came up with, with level indicated and with the "c" meaning that concentration is also required. Thanks again wolf118! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Saving throw at the end of each turn</p><p>Blinding Smite – 3c</p><p>Blindness/Deafness – 3</p><p>Compulsion – 4c</p><p>Confusion – 4c</p><p>Crown of Madness – 2c</p><p>Ensnaring Strike – 1c</p><p>Entangle – 1c</p><p>Evard’s Black Tentacles – 4c</p><p>Eyebite – 6c</p><p>Hold Monster – 5c</p><p>Hold Person – 2c</p><p>Power Word Stun – 8</p><p>Ray of Enfeeblement – 2c</p><p>Searing Smite – 1c</p><p>Slow – 3c</p><p>Sunburst – 8</p><p>Tasha’s Hideous Laughter – 1c</p><p>Wrathful Smite – 1c</p><p></p><p>One Saving Throw for duration</p><p>Banishing Smite – 5c</p><p>Banishment – 4c</p><p>Branding Smite – 2c</p><p>Charm Person – 1</p><p>Color Spray – 1</p><p>Enlarge/Reduce – 2c</p><p>Enthrall – 2</p><p>Hex – 1c</p><p>Holy Aura – 8c</p><p>Imprisonment – 9</p><p>Planar Binding – 5</p><p>Ray of Sickness – 1</p><p></p><p><em>Edited to bold the question I most want answered <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Skyscraper, post: 6779723, member: 48518"] I'm still toying with spellcasting houserules - per a few other threads I posted here, the feedback of which having been, honestly, quite simply great. As part of a few houserules that I'm considering (you can see my [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?473827-Variant-spellcasting"]variant spellcasting[/URL] thread if you want details), I was initially thinking about increasing the spellpower of spells that allow a save when the spell is cast plus a save at the end of each turn, to instead allow only a save when the spell is cast plus a single save at the end of the target's first turn (item #6 in that other thread). I'm now considering another alternate rule instead: [B]to allow a single save when the spell is cast, period, in the old-school style. But to bump up all those spells of one level.[/B] So Hold Person would become a third level spell. I'm continuing to think about the the save-each-round mechanic and wish to engage this community in this thought process, for those that wish to discuss this. The save-each-round rule of course makes plenty of sense and I won't argue that a player might find a battle boring if his PC is paralysed for the entirey battle. I played a lot of AD&D, 3.5 D&D, 4E D&D, a bit of 5E, and a lot of DDM (D&D miniatures tabletop strategy that uses the save-each-round mechanic) - plus other systems including retroclones and the like. So I'm familiar with both styles of play, i.e. save-each-round and save-or-suck. What I like about save-or-suck, is that spellcasting really matters. I understand that this can be seen as relatively downgrading non-caster PCs, but I don't see it that way at all - I like the challenge :). I understand that many players don't like that playstyle, and I respect that. Like, totally. Concerning the of course valid point of players finding it boring to stand around while their PC is paralysed, I'll mention that (1) NPC casters and monsters that can paralyse are not necessarily frequent in my low-ish magic homebrew setting; and (2) players should consider having Lesser Restauration, Dispel Magic or the like prepared to counter this eventuality. It's likely that most PCs will not remain paralysed if players indeed opt to have counterspells prepared (in the large sense of "counterspell"). What are the thoughts of this community about the rule of allowing a single save when the spell is cast, old-school style; and to bump up all those spells of one level? [B]In particular, do you find that those spells would be relatively balanced compared to other spells of their new level?[/B] For reference, @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=72051"]Wolf118[/URL][/U][/B][/I] digged up a non-exhaustive, but useful, list of spells that use the save-each-round mechanic, in [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471127-Increasing-spell-power/page6&p=6745651&viewfull=1#post6745651"]this post[/URL] in another thread I started on a similar topic. Here is the list he came up with, with level indicated and with the "c" meaning that concentration is also required. Thanks again wolf118! :) Saving throw at the end of each turn Blinding Smite – 3c Blindness/Deafness – 3 Compulsion – 4c Confusion – 4c Crown of Madness – 2c Ensnaring Strike – 1c Entangle – 1c Evard’s Black Tentacles – 4c Eyebite – 6c Hold Monster – 5c Hold Person – 2c Power Word Stun – 8 Ray of Enfeeblement – 2c Searing Smite – 1c Slow – 3c Sunburst – 8 Tasha’s Hideous Laughter – 1c Wrathful Smite – 1c One Saving Throw for duration Banishing Smite – 5c Banishment – 4c Branding Smite – 2c Charm Person – 1 Color Spray – 1 Enlarge/Reduce – 2c Enthrall – 2 Hex – 1c Holy Aura – 8c Imprisonment – 9 Planar Binding – 5 Ray of Sickness – 1 [I]Edited to bold the question I most want answered :)[/I] [/QUOTE]
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