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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Removing save-or-die: Too much of a good thing?
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<blockquote data-quote="Three_Haligonians" data-source="post: 4103257" data-attributes="member: 19546"><p>So this is my first 4e thread, please be gentle <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>Let me say that I am pretty pro-4e; I see a lot of things that I like, and at worst I've been saying to myself "eh.. I wouldn't have done that.. but I can work with it".</p><p></p><p>My current Epic game in 3.5 has one player with an enchantment based sorcerer character and it has become a real problem that either the opponent is completely hosed by <em>dominate monster</em> or completely immune to mind-affecting spells (because of magic items or creature type or what have you).</p><p></p><p>So when I read that save-or-die effects were being cut back in 4e I was very pleased. When I read that <em>sleep</em> still slowed the target even when they made their save I was ecstatic; I thought it was a great idea. I just read about the goblin picador and how with his harpoon on a failed save he can move a PC 3 squares, and on a successful save, just 1. That's pretty cool too.</p><p></p><p>Here is my concern though; as much as I like the cut-down on save-or-die, I don't think I want it to be removed entirely. I mean, I understand how no one wants to be ineffective against their opponents but there is something to be said for being able to shrug off the effect with no penalty right? Having your attack fail against the BBEG is part of the game too, it makes for some tension and some quick thinking about what to try next. Likewise it's fun for the PCs to stand there and laugh off an attack.</p><p></p><p>I should mention that I've not read all the released 4e rules from DDI or DDXP and the like so I might just not have seen these things. If that's the case, feel free to just let me know and I'll be reassured.</p><p></p><p>Just thought I'd voice a concern</p><p></p><p>J from Three Haligonians</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Three_Haligonians, post: 4103257, member: 19546"] So this is my first 4e thread, please be gentle :) Let me say that I am pretty pro-4e; I see a lot of things that I like, and at worst I've been saying to myself "eh.. I wouldn't have done that.. but I can work with it". My current Epic game in 3.5 has one player with an enchantment based sorcerer character and it has become a real problem that either the opponent is completely hosed by [i]dominate monster[/i] or completely immune to mind-affecting spells (because of magic items or creature type or what have you). So when I read that save-or-die effects were being cut back in 4e I was very pleased. When I read that [i]sleep[/i] still slowed the target even when they made their save I was ecstatic; I thought it was a great idea. I just read about the goblin picador and how with his harpoon on a failed save he can move a PC 3 squares, and on a successful save, just 1. That's pretty cool too. Here is my concern though; as much as I like the cut-down on save-or-die, I don't think I want it to be removed entirely. I mean, I understand how no one wants to be ineffective against their opponents but there is something to be said for being able to shrug off the effect with no penalty right? Having your attack fail against the BBEG is part of the game too, it makes for some tension and some quick thinking about what to try next. Likewise it's fun for the PCs to stand there and laugh off an attack. I should mention that I've not read all the released 4e rules from DDI or DDXP and the like so I might just not have seen these things. If that's the case, feel free to just let me know and I'll be reassured. Just thought I'd voice a concern J from Three Haligonians [/QUOTE]
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Removing save-or-die: Too much of a good thing?
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