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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9546038" data-attributes="member: 7006">The thing that I'd say in regards to this statement of yours is that to me this is perfectly acceptable-- because the "decision" you put it isn't choosing to make the check rather than not making the check (as you quite rightly put it-- why wouldn't anyone not make the check if they could?)... but rather the actual "decision" is coming up with the idea to try and persuade the person in the first place.  The player has to see the situation in the story, see what they are being kept from based on the situation, and then try and figure out the best way for them and their character to resolve it and get what they want-- in this particular case you mentioned, "persuading" the NPC.I don't think many times people give enough credit to the players actually coming up with the ideas they want to do, which to me is the real juice of the game.  It seems like oftentimes in discussions like this we just jump right past the "coming up with the idea" part and go straight into the "how do we mechanically resolve it?" part, as though deciding on how the DM and players are meant to decide on the resolution statements or format are what actually matter.  Which to me is backwards... the players making choices on how they wish to resolve situations-- narrative choices-- is really the more important part... not the mechanics used to resolve it.Could a player "roleplay" a bit more to resolve a persuasion situation rather than just say "Can I make a Persuasion check?"  Sure.  And yeah, doing so might fit the "ambience" of the scene a little more... but sticking within the ambience is much less important in my opinion than them actually making the choice for what it is they want to do-- persuade the NPC (as opposed to any number of others things they could have chosen to do instead.)  So how they express their decision and choice should not really be held to some kind of standard over and above just coming up with the idea.Too often we do not give the players credit for thinking up the decision to persuade the person... we get hung up on how they choose to express that persuasion instead.  To the game's detriment in my opinion.</blockquote>

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