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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
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Renamed Thread: "The Illusion of Agency"
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 9547941" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>I'm not sure how what I said warrants this sort of snarky reply.</p><p></p><p>I don't think that I was being snarky or disrespectful when I said that it feels like what you were doing was rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It was me being honest and forthright about what feels like a solution that doesn't actually address or solve the problem that I may have with your approach, even if you don't necessarily see it happen at your table. Assuming equally creative players, the mage player benefits just as much from your approach as the barbarian player does and, in some cases, they may benefit more so because "magic." A fair and good GM may still be more liberal with what the creative thinking of the mage can accomplish as a result of having a more permissive view towards the possibilities of "magic" than what a more mundane barbarian can likewise accomplish with their creative thinking. This issue has come up numerous times in past discussions with other people on this forum before as well. I know that [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] has talked about this plenty of times before.</p><p></p><p>You are pretty harsh on other play styles you don't like in this thread, no? You uncharitably characterize a fair share of prevailing forms of 5e play outside of your preferences in terms of players just looking for answers on their character sheets, players mindlessly and uncreatively pushing buttons, or others of being "jerk/bad DMs." Even finger pointing at this style, basically saying words to the effect of "Nuh uh! You're the ones who are being Mother May I!" And you are surprised that you are getting pushback while now being snarky about it? I think that you may need to cool your jets a bit, because you are getting pretty heated as of late.</p><p></p><p>Now you see problems with what you derisively call "button pushing" playstyle that other people don't see occurring or may even enjoy. So are you actually solving a problem with your approach? Do you think that your approach is without drawbacks, blind spots, or potential problems for players? Or is this a figurative case of you thinking that your crap smells like potpourri? There are downsides to every approach and game style. IMHO, part of becoming a better GM is growing an awareness of the pitfalls and drawbacks for different approaches or how the ideal form of play can devolve in praxis. Advocates for OSR and FKR may, for example, talk up "tactical infinity" as how the game is played. However, I have seen in play how the sales pitch of "tactical infinity" can devolve into a "finite set of GM-approved tactics" in praxis over time. As the OSR community says, what gets rewarded gets repeated, and the tactics that get GM approval will be repeated while those that don't will be discarded.</p><p></p><p>I understand that you don't see this as a problem at your table. Congratulations! I am <em>genuinely </em>happy that you have found something that works for you and the players at your table. But what happens at your tables doesn't somehow erase the contrary experiences of people who sit at other tables and not every one will necessarily believe, want, or be convinced by the solution to their problem that you are selling with your approach. And if I sat at your table, you may see it as all sunshine, roses, and rainbows while I could be sitting there having an unfun time or wishing that I was playing some other game, even if my Southern upbringing would probably mean that I would say only nice and appreciative things about your game when you asked me how it was.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 9547941, member: 5142"] I'm not sure how what I said warrants this sort of snarky reply. I don't think that I was being snarky or disrespectful when I said that it feels like what you were doing was rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It was me being honest and forthright about what feels like a solution that doesn't actually address or solve the problem that I may have with your approach, even if you don't necessarily see it happen at your table. Assuming equally creative players, the mage player benefits just as much from your approach as the barbarian player does and, in some cases, they may benefit more so because "magic." A fair and good GM may still be more liberal with what the creative thinking of the mage can accomplish as a result of having a more permissive view towards the possibilities of "magic" than what a more mundane barbarian can likewise accomplish with their creative thinking. This issue has come up numerous times in past discussions with other people on this forum before as well. I know that [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] has talked about this plenty of times before. You are pretty harsh on other play styles you don't like in this thread, no? You uncharitably characterize a fair share of prevailing forms of 5e play outside of your preferences in terms of players just looking for answers on their character sheets, players mindlessly and uncreatively pushing buttons, or others of being "jerk/bad DMs." Even finger pointing at this style, basically saying words to the effect of "Nuh uh! You're the ones who are being Mother May I!" And you are surprised that you are getting pushback while now being snarky about it? I think that you may need to cool your jets a bit, because you are getting pretty heated as of late. Now you see problems with what you derisively call "button pushing" playstyle that other people don't see occurring or may even enjoy. So are you actually solving a problem with your approach? Do you think that your approach is without drawbacks, blind spots, or potential problems for players? Or is this a figurative case of you thinking that your crap smells like potpourri? There are downsides to every approach and game style. IMHO, part of becoming a better GM is growing an awareness of the pitfalls and drawbacks for different approaches or how the ideal form of play can devolve in praxis. Advocates for OSR and FKR may, for example, talk up "tactical infinity" as how the game is played. However, I have seen in play how the sales pitch of "tactical infinity" can devolve into a "finite set of GM-approved tactics" in praxis over time. As the OSR community says, what gets rewarded gets repeated, and the tactics that get GM approval will be repeated while those that don't will be discarded. I understand that you don't see this as a problem at your table. Congratulations! I am [I]genuinely [/I]happy that you have found something that works for you and the players at your table. But what happens at your tables doesn't somehow erase the contrary experiences of people who sit at other tables and not every one will necessarily believe, want, or be convinced by the solution to their problem that you are selling with your approach. And if I sat at your table, you may see it as all sunshine, roses, and rainbows while I could be sitting there having an unfun time or wishing that I was playing some other game, even if my Southern upbringing would probably mean that I would say only nice and appreciative things about your game when you asked me how it was. [/QUOTE]
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