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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TrippyHippy" data-source="post: 8160740" data-attributes="member: 27252">These posts seem to get longer and longer each time, however, one relevant thing at this point is you don’t play the current version of the game. It shows. Playing Vampire as ‘superhero with fangs’ is your own business, which is clearly stated in Vampire Revised and is why it is inclusive, but it lacks the ambition that the Vampire game had for itself. That is what Justin Achilli was talking about. If you turned up to my group and insisted on playing ’superhero with fangs’ when we play Vampire, I personally, would be less inclusive about it because it comprises the atmosphere I try to build with the narrative.The backlash about Revised that you are citing isn’t really any different to typical edition wars of any game, but your attribution to Achilli’s motivations are your own interpretation which are not objective. You are merely reflecting on the game you imagined in your head not being supported by the game the creators set out to design - and then asserting that you were playing it the right way and the developer, or anybody else, didn’t know what he was doing. I don’t think that is particularly pleasant - because you don’t speak for the entire fanbase. Revised sales, incidentally, were more of a plateauing effect than a decline. It is actually not my favourite edition either, but that is not because it declined to let people play ’superheroes with fangs’ but because it broadened the scope of the game, to be less focussed on the gameplay of 1st and 2nd, and more inclusive of being able to play it that way.  There is more imagery and capacity to play ‘superheroes with fangs' in Revised than in previous editions, and then more capacity again in V20. That is the reason why I don’t like it as much.The point about the Sabbat, is that they were not integrated into the core rules until Vampire Revised came out too. In V1, the Sabbat was merely referenced without details. V2 came out in 1992, and again, they were only mentioned without details. Both were ‘complete’ games, in as much as you din’t need to buy anything else to play. In order to include the Sabbat in your chronicles, you had to wait till 1993 and then buy a supplemental book - which gave the ST the option of whether to include them as playable options or not. Many groups didn’t choose to make them a playable option - they are a very inhuman group - and it was only in Revised that they were fully included in the core. Again, it was a more inclusive edition.In the most recent V5 edition of the game - of which Justin Achilli was not involved with, but was influenced by the original creator Mark Rein-Hagen - the capacity to play ‘superheroes with fangs’ is significantly reduced by the mechanics in play. Again, there is substantial flexibility within the core premise, but the purpose of the game is clear and flatly, if you did want to play 'superheroes with fangs’ you’ll probably end up being disappointed. It’s not what it is designed to do - it never was - and there are other games out there more suited for this purpose.</blockquote>

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