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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8168932" data-attributes="member: 18">OK? The point remains that you've made demonstrably false claims in this thread - claiming, for example, that it was never "intended" that people play it in the ways described as "superheroes with fangs" or with a "trenchcoats and katanas" bent, when the very existence of the combat sourcebooks shows it was - they push the game extremely hard in that direction, and make a focus on combat much more likely. And as I've noted, stuff like Kindred of the East barely even makes sense outside of a pretty "trenchcoats and katanas" approach.Mage was even more open about this, I note, it had the whole "Tales of Magick: Dark Adventure" sourcebook which was entirely and literally about this mode of play and how to better support it.What I'm pointing out is that there's a distinct and odd break between 2E's approach, and Revised's approach (at least initially, when Revised hasn't been out long), and the claim I am making, but don't have direct evidence for, because it's gone, is that Justin Achilli made detailed comments clearly outlining that he wanted to go from a scenario where "superheroes with fangs "and "trenchcoats and katanas" were common part of VtM, to one where they were not. You have repeatedly agreed that this was a de facto impact of Revised, and defended it on ideological grounds, but seem to simply be claiming that unless I provide quotes, the comments were never made. Which isn't much of an argument.One thing not mentioned yet, that to me is kind of interesting, is that at the same time, WW was putting out more adventure-oriented, less horror-oriented RPGs - Aeon/Aberrant/Adventure, and not long thereafter, Exalted. So maybe the feeling was that instead of making the WoD stuff more "adventure-oriented", as I would argue 2E very much defacto did, WW wanted to try and have a horror line and an adventure line separately. I think the decline in popularity of the WoD in Revised, and the lower popularity of the nWoD (despite VtR, frankly being pretty great - less so the nWoD Mage and Werewolf), is actually in part a result of this. My feeling is that the popularity of the 2E WoD, and the fact that it's still remembered fondly today by a lot of people was in large part down to it being a "broad church", where one group could happily be Nick Knight'ing it up, but another could be Vampire Diaries-ing it, and yet a third could be a very serious and horror-y The Hunger-but-less-sexy-type deal. The same in other games. One Werewolf game might be about tribal politics, or even politics and change in general, and another could be "LETS STAB PENTEX WITH KLAIVES WOOOO". Or one Mage game could be esoteric arguments about the nature of reality and philosophical threats and so on, but another could involve a mage using magic to ride an motorbike through a window whilst blasting away at Matrix/Terminator-style enemies with a shotgun. And Revised in general, initially at least, seemed to really try to clamp down on the adventure, and focus more on the horror (and the nWoD seemed to try and do that whilst also upping the "personal" element and moving away from ideological stuff - which is particularly evident in the nWoD Mage and Werewolf).I'm not saying that was entirely illegitimate. I am saying it seemed rude at times, and was probably a bad idea.</blockquote>

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