Replacing a monster's DR without changing CR

[maggot]

As my campaign gets into the higher levels, I'm finding more and more of the published creatures at that CR have DR. And not just DR 10/magic, but things like DR 10/silver and good. For various reasons, I can't/won't have a party of characters all carrying bags full of different weapons.

I don't want this thread to become a debate on DR or variant rules for it. I simply want to replace DR on published with something else. What would be appropriate that wouldn't change the CR?

 

[Jdvn1]

If items to fight the creatures aren't common, just dropping the DR by 5 might be appropriate. There's also a feat that ignores 5 points of DR.

You could also double the number and make it fast healing.

 

[FireLance]

Why not just leave the DR as it is? Even if all the characters are not armed with appropriate weapons, the encounter just gets slightly tougher. Spellcasters generally ignore DR, for example, and rogues and fighter types generally find their damage-dealing capacity reduced, but not eliminated.

Personally, I find that DR is not meaningful if the entire party simply ignores it. I mean, what the point of damage reduction if it doesn't actually reduce any damage?

Alternatively, you could work it like a hardness mechanic and have it reduce all weapon damage regardless of source, i.e. DR/-. Perhaps 1 point for every 5 points of easily overcome DR like magic and damage type (slashing, piercing) and 2 points for every 5 points of DR that is harder to overcome like special materials (cold iron, silver) and alignment (good, evil). DR types with "or" (e.g. cold iron or good) would get the lower value, and DR types with "and" would stack (to a maximum of two DR types).

So, a creature with DR 5/magic would get DR 1/-. One with DR 10/good would get DR 4/-. DR 10/magic or silver would become DR 2/-, and DR 15/cold iron and good would become DR 12/-.

 

[Sgiò Karka]

You could return to the system of the 3.0 : the degree of the weapon's magic power can bypass the DR (the number of " + ")

According to the old books, we could find this examples, there is not a precise mechanic to make the conversion, and you have to adapt for each monster au cas par cas :

5/magic and 10/magic : 10/+1
10/evil : 10/+1
15/good : 20/+2
15/good & iron : 30/+3
15 good & silver :15/+3 or 20/+3
20/good & iron : 30/+5

 

[maggot]

Why not just leave the DR as it is?

I find it repeative. I don't mind an occasional fight against some golem with DR, but when every high-level creature has DR, the fights get to feel the same.

Personally, I find that DR is not meaningful if the entire party simply ignores it.

That's exactly what I want, no DR at all for some encounters. But I don't want to make the encounter too easy, so I have to come up with a new way to judge CR when DR isn't in the picture. Or I have to replace DR with something else.

Fast healing and variant DR are both good ideas. I also thought about just tacking on a few more points of natural armor. Since I want to change the that combat feel for various encounters, I'll probably do an assortment of these.

Thanks. Any more ideas out there?

 

[Zoatebix]

I guess I should give my stock answer and point you to http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=66470 the challenge rating system the Upper_Krust developed for his unfinished Immortals Handbook and that has been published in Bad Axe Games Grim Tales. Just like everything, there's arbitrariness to it and it won't work for everyone's game all the time. It's a great start, though, and it's thorough and well-tested.

 

[maggot]

Thanks. I had thought of that, but lost the link.

I took a look at the challenge ratings document. According to it, for an undead with DR 15/silver and good, the CR rating is 0.75. For that amount of CR you can get (focusing on more defensive abilities):

Fast healing 10
Fire resistance 37.5
DR 30/silver or magic
DR 22.5/magic
DR 15/epic
DR 7.5/-
Hardness 3.75
+7.5 natural armor (or deflection for that matter)
Spell resistance 17.5
Turn Resistance +15
Death Throes as Balor
+7.5 to one stat
3.75 bonus feats
37.5 bonus skill points
Equipment as a 6th level NPC (5400gp)

Some other things that aren't exact:

1 extra hit die as undead is 0.45, two extra HD is 0.9
For 0.6 the creature can fly at 60 or more depending on size.
Greater Dispelling (20th level) at will is worth 0.6

These sound highly variable. I can't see how 1 or 2 hit dice of undead is worth anywhere near what "DR 15/silver and good" is. And Greater Dispelling at will at 20th is got to be worth a lot more than that.

But something is really wonky.
Greater Dispelling (20th level) at will is worth 0.6, and cast spells as 2nd level Cleric is worth 0.76.

Spell Resistance (20th level) at will is worth 0.5, but SR 32 is 3.2.