Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 3697553" data-attributes="member: 1003">I think you may be confusing two issues. Perhaps not, but I just want to make clear that as a player I chave no problem navigating dungeons. What I (and, I think, everyone on this thread who's on the "no mapping" side) very specifically objects to is the task of rendering a 2D (or worse, 3D) replica of the GM's map based on a verbal description. Since getting it right is impossible short of having surveying equipment and a protractor, I don't see how this is either fair or a fun way to spend a good third of your gaming time (which seems to be the minimum amount of time it can take).  The "un-funness" is doubled by the knowledge that the PC would have an easier time mapping a dungeon than you (the player) merely because he can actually see where he's going (the player is mostly blind).  Unless you get a direct pleasure from the task of mapping itself, there's just so many reasonable and faster alternatives to "mapping" in the old school sense.Of course, if you get do derive pleasure from drawing maps (as opposed to all of the other game elements found in D&D), there's plenty of other ways to do this. This sounds more like a hobby similar to model train building than anything I would call "role playing."Good point. I will follow your example the next time I GM.  When that character with 10 Ranks in Decipher Script wants to read the ancient document, I'll hand him a page written in Ancient Greek. No need to roll your Skill Check - it's part of the challenge of RPG's, and clearly anyone who isn't interested in deciphering ancient documents should not step foot in Candlekeep Library.  As for that Archer PC (we play Iron Heroes), if he can't explain why he can ignore the cover the Orcish sniper has found for himself, well then, he can just forget about that particular class ability.  I mean, if he can't visualize and describe his ability to hit the Orc regardless of cover, then he shouldn't expect to be able to do so. After all, any PC who isn't up for the challenges of playing an Archer should leave that yew branch on the tree.This is dumb. PC's have class abilities. Players invest Skill Points in skills for a reason. What's the point of putting 10 ranks into Survival if I can't use half the functions described in the books?  Heck, by your rules my PC could have a +20 mod each in Profession (Surveyor) and Craft (Cartography) and I (the player) would still be expected to map by hand.  What would be the benefit of that? You'd give me the "right" dimensions?  Should I assume then that everyone else is getting the wrong ones?I understand that in older versions of D&D there weren't any skill points, so there was a much clearer divide between what was "the PC's job" and what was "the player's job."  I get that. But two points  - (1) 3e has Skills, and players expect to be able to use them, and (2) even in OD&D, a Magic-User's player could say "Sorry, I (the player) am not going to map. Emirkol has an Intelligence of 15, and spends an hour every day memorizing complex spell formulas. Memorizing lefts and rights and number of doors will be a cake walk. He will spend several rounds before leaving any room to firmly set the details in his mind."What would you do then?</blockquote>

Verification