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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9512775" data-attributes="member: 18">I already &quot;proved you wrong&quot; as you put it, re: initiative being &quot;faster for some groups&quot; without any qualifications as to the conditions under which that would be true.See, now we're extracting some useful information from you, rather than illogical claims seemingly based on anecdote. So to answer your question - I'm not &quot;hell bent on proving you wrong&quot; - I'm trying extract some useful information from you about why you think what you think.So what we're seeing is a considerably narrower and more specific claim that what you previously made, and one that's more plausible. Specifically that:A) If your players have really significant attention issues, like those some people have when playing online, then forcing people to make this roll and re-order initiative causes people to have to pay a bit more attention, and presumably then not just &quot;wait for their go&quot;.B) This isn't the only solution to that, nor by implication, necessarily the best one, merely one that works for you.That's fine - that makes sense and is actually a useful bit of information.It's not really arrogant to disbelieve extremely wild claims - I'm not arrogant for thinking that my second cousin probably didn't actually see a werewolf that one time, sorry. Nor is it &quot;disparagement&quot; to disbelieve this. I'm not saying you're liar - I didn't suggest that, because I don't think it's the case - I think you've got an inflated and laughable opinion re: the capabilities of your players. Which is cute but silly rather than a malicious deception. And it's not a &quot;millions of tables&quot; statistical anomaly thing. &quot;Millions of tables&quot; things are like rolling straight 18s down the line on 3d6 chargen, or rolling 10 natural 20s in a row. Hell I've seen somewhat similar things. But D&amp;D combat is flatly not possible to &quot;solve mathematically on turn one&quot; as you claim, because there is simply too much variance and because of information asymmetry.Further, even if it was possible to &quot;solve it mathematically on turn one&quot;, simply adding a few more instances of one specific variable (initiative position) to the dozens to hundreds of other variables wouldn't likely make it impossible to solve.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9512775, member: 18"] I already "proved you wrong" as you put it, re: initiative being "faster for some groups" without any qualifications as to the conditions under which that would be true. See, now we're extracting some useful information from you, rather than illogical claims seemingly based on anecdote. So to answer your question - I'm not "hell bent on proving you wrong" - I'm trying extract some useful information from you about why you think what you think. So what we're seeing is a considerably narrower and more specific claim that what you previously made, and one that's more plausible. Specifically that: A) If your players have really significant attention issues, like those some people have when playing online, then forcing people to make this roll and re-order initiative causes people to have to pay a bit more attention, and presumably then not just "wait for their go". B) This isn't the only solution to that, nor by implication, necessarily the best one, merely one that works for you. That's fine - that makes sense and is actually a useful bit of information. It's not really arrogant to disbelieve extremely wild claims - I'm not arrogant for thinking that my second cousin probably didn't [I]actually[/I] see a werewolf that one time, sorry. Nor is it "disparagement" to disbelieve this. I'm not saying you're liar - I didn't suggest that, because I don't think it's the case - I think you've got an inflated and laughable opinion re: the capabilities of your players. Which is cute but silly rather than a malicious deception. And it's not a "millions of tables" statistical anomaly thing. "Millions of tables" things are like rolling straight 18s down the line on 3d6 chargen, or rolling 10 natural 20s in a row. Hell I've seen somewhat similar things. But D&D combat is flatly not possible to "solve mathematically on turn one" as you claim, because there is simply too much variance and because of information asymmetry. Further, even if it was possible to "solve it mathematically on turn one", simply adding a few more instances of one specific variable (initiative position) to the dozens to hundreds of other variables wouldn't likely make it impossible to solve. [/QUOTE]

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