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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4075096" data-attributes="member: 22779">Something I've learned over the past few years is that players almost never care as much about your campaign world as you do.  I used to hand out ten or fifteen page backgrounds when I started a new campaign.  Invariably, one maybe two players would read it and the others wouldn't even glance at it.  They just don't care.  They want to go out, play, have fun, and by and large, not get too involved in someone else's imaginary world.  They care about what's directly related to them.  Beyond that, I've found most players couldn't possibly care less.However, you've outlined two issues here.  You're saying that the work you do for your campaign is under appreciated and the second issue is that your players are complaining that your encounters are too difficult.  I've already talked about the first one, but, let's look at the second one.Later in your post, you mention that a player is getting perished every three sessions.  That means that your encounters are certainly not easy.  It may very well be that your players are on to something.  Your encounters may very well be too difficult.  Step back for a moment and look at why they are having so much difficulty with encounters - are they just tactically inept?  are the encounters significantly higher Encounter Level than their Average Party Level?  what about PC wealth - too little can seriously hinder party effectiveness - are they significantly behind on what's expected for their level?Or, is it something else?  Are the encounter set-ups increasing difficulty?  If every encounter the enemies use Sun Tsu level tactics in a setting which perfectly enhances their every action then, yeah, that's a bit tougher than things might usually be.  I'm not pinning this on you at all.  Don't think that I am.  I'm just trying to come from a different angle and propose a possible reason for the grumbling beyond just, "Oh my players suck".Ok, this one can REALLY go both ways.  It could very well be that your players lack the mechanical knowledge to explain why they don't like your mechanics.  It could just be a gut reaction.  It could also be that they think the new mechanics are only in place to penalize them.  Coupling this issue with the issue below about the idea of DM VS Players adversity, it could be that they think the only reason you are changing rules is to artificially make encounters more difficult.You haven't given a specific example, so it's a bit difficult to give more specific advice other than to say, step back and re-examine why you are making these changes.  What purpose do these new mechanics serve?  Why do the existing mechanics fail to meet whatever goal you are attempting to achieve?  Also, do these mechanics serve to penalize PC's without adversely affecting the opponents?  For example, if you add a mechanic whereby you need to make a Reflex save every time you take damage while the ship the party is currently aboard rocks in a storm, but the enemies they are fighting all fly with no problems in this storm, then, yeah, I'd probably get a bit cheesed.  You're making a difficult fight (fighting flying creatures) that much more difficult for no other reason than to make the fight harder.  I run into this one all the time.  Players buy books and they want to use those books.  It's not exactly wrong of them.  However, yeah, you just have to stick to your guns here.  If you don't want X in your game, then that should be the end of the discussion.  Unfortunately it rarely is, and players sometimes will try to wheedle you into submission.  I think the best answer here is to be very firm, but, also to really chart out why you don't want X in your game.  If it ruins a later plot, screw it, change your plot.  I find it far easier to simply change some future plans than to constantly deal with badgering players.  YMMV and all that.Well, I've mentioned this above, and I think your issues seem, at least from the little information we have here, to be linked.  You are creating new rules, limiting player options, and possibly setting up encounters that the players feel are too difficult.  That's a perfect storm of problems.  The advice to talk to your players is certainly valid.  Make your concerns plain to all of your players.  However, it would also be a good idea to step back and see if you really are causing your own problems.  Why are the players asking for new options?  Is it because they see themselves in an arms race with you, because they feel you are stacking the deck in every encounter?  Are you stacking the deck?  I don't mean intentionally, but, it could be that you are not on the same page as they are about what a given party should be facing.  Take a look at some published adventures.  See how they set up encounters.  Compare those encounters to your own.  As I said, it could quite possibly be that your players are a bunch of jerks.  That's certainly possible.  But, it could also possibly be that you've started a bit of a circle yourself by presenting the players with encounters that they feel are too difficult, and then further stacked the deck by creating new mechanics for these encounters.  A bit of self examination is never out of place.Sorry for the extremely long ramble.</blockquote>

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