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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8430108" data-attributes="member: 7032025">This is a bizarre answer to my "It's not black and white like this, sorry, never was in a RPG." Are you meaning that for you, it is black and white ? Because I have played games in which there was a very strong story from the DM (including almost all published modules and campaigns that I have played in) and others in which the story was very light (but admittedly much fewer of these), and I've been entertained by both, in all shades of grey.That's fine, speak for yourself. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />That's fine, I only said "usually". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />And then, the internet is a funny place, you know, because people leave traces there. You say " I don't have a plot that has to be roughly followed.", and at the same time, didn't you say <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/maiden-voyage-penumbra-d20-module.393493/" target="_blank">here</a> that you were actually running a module (What ? Horror !), namely "Maiden Voyage" which, as you say yourself in that post "This is definitely one of the better modules I've run in 30-odd years of GMing", and if I'm not mistaken, that module has a plot which was roughly followed (although there is some flexibility there, that you even applaud yourself "The module's default assumption is that he will remain alive through the climax, although - to it's author's credit - it doesn't in any way try to enforce this outcome. ").So what is the truth, I wonder... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />Well, it was only a kobold. I'll give you the example of probably the most famous NPC kobold of all times, the darling Meepo, who was beloved by almost all groups playing the Sunless Citadel, including all groups that I ran the adventure for (because it's not a bad introductory adventure and I like to introduce people to the game, I've probably done it for hundreds of people). As defined in the adventure, Meepo is generally weepy and obviously frightened of the PCs, and generally willing to answer questions. However, as designed, he can only answer simple questions about the cage and the missing dragon, and he gets weepy, otherwise, all he says is "Meepo don't know, but the leader does, Meepo take you to meet the leader Yusdrayl". This is written plainly that way in the module.Now, this is the part where the "elite" never playing a published adventure sneer down on people playing them. But I dare you to badwrongfun any DM running an adventure exactly as published. You might be expecting a certain type of play, and a certain quality of DMing, if it's your preference, that's fine, but don't you dare despise people playing the game differently than you. And don't you dare calling "bad DMs" beginning DMs, or DMs who are unsure of themselves and their capacity to improvise, or to deviate from a module. I dare you, I double dare you !I don't have enough information about your case, but until I hear more about the DM, I could totally assume that he was not that an experienced a DM, trying his best to run a published adventure for you and the others, not knowing that well how to improvise. And if it was that way, and you slammed the door on his face for not being "at the level of DMing that you expect" but also maybe for wanting to try a different sort of game, and then called him a "Bad DM", and the continue to slander his efforts over the internet to make a point then honestly,... Honestly I will refrain to tell you what I think of this because it makes me extremely angry.Ok, total disrespect for the DM's work. Without any further information, just as you called him a "Bad DM", I will call these "Bad Players".Great, you have different standards, fine for you. But, as you say, it's a popular adventure trope, seen time and time over in books/movies/shows of the genre. Did you make it clear, during session 0, that you expected "elite DMing according to your exacting standards ?" Because if you did not, and did not express very clearly your preferences for a certain type of game, and ascertained that the DM had been certified to the highest level of roleplaying that you expect, and still let him prepare and run the game anyway, you are the one to blame here.And again, it was probably a beginner, or a DM unsure of himself and you are making me more and more angry.He is there to be a friend playing with the DM in a spirit of collaboration. As Tasha says "The players will respect you and the effort it takes to create a fun game for everyone. The players will allow you to direct the campaign, arbitrate the rules, and settle arguments." Instead of being elitist jerks who expect to be entertained exactly as they want, they might be supportive and friendly and help DMs overcome their fears and doubt about DMing.Because being a DM is way harder job than just being a player. The number of DMs, even fairly experienced ones coming to forums with having the impression to be lost, to fail their players, not knowing how to handle a situation is certainly not negligible. Maybe some people are born with it in their blood, I know that I started with it from scratch having just read the books and found my style on my own as a 15 years old teenaged with no guidance, but it does not prevent me from making mistakes now and then, or wondering whether I'm doing the right thing.And there are certainly not enough DMs to go around, so if elitist ***** go around the web calling people making small mistakes "bad DMs", quitting their games, slamming the door in their face and slandering them all over the internet, is that really the way to go ?On the contrary, I'm always supportive of DMs. Always. I might not like the game. I might take it upon me to try to enjoy it despite its flaws. I might even completely reduce my expectations of personal fun to zero to support the DM and the other players having fun. I might have a long talk with the DM after the game. I might even - it happened to me only once that I can clearly remember - tell the DM that the game is not for me, and that we have different tastes.But I do believe that it makes me a better player than being able to perfectly roleplay my character or to know all the rules by heart and be able to invent incredible tactics. And I was not always that way, and I deeply regret it, fortunately for me, there were DMs who were strong and confident enough to tell me that I was being a jerk.Yeah, right, do please go on with the strawmanning, I'm sure it will help make your case. None of the cases that you cited were like this.</blockquote>

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