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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="Malmuria" data-source="post: 8431157" data-attributes="member: 7030755"><p>Per my earlier post</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a somewhat pedantic discussion as its about how the rules formally apportion roles and whether player agency comes from the rules or the social context of playing a game with friends. Your view, between this and the other thread, seems to be that whatever agency the players have come from the 300 pages of rules. Further, for you, adjudication of a rule seems to be contained in step 2, "the players describe what they want to do." If a rule says a thing then the PC does that thing, no questions about it. That is how a lot of people view the game, hence the concern for how rules are worded, the dislike of "natural language" that introduces possible contradictions or complications, and the focus on Jeremey Crawford's sage advice to clarify how rules are meant to function. It's also the view of the game that leads to players carving out rules exploits and such, because the rules are inviolable. </p><p></p><p>My view is that the player can declare what they would like to do, but it is the DM that is interpreting adjudicating what that means within the context of the situation and their reading of the rule text. (In your cunning action example: does the player have a bonus action remaining? If they want to hide, is there a place available for them to hide?* Are they suffering from a condition that would prevent them taking a bonus action? Is there a homebrew spell effect in the area preventing bonus actions?) Since the DM is acting in good faith and using the rules, in practice that means when a player uses cunning action to hide, the same thing happens whether they are at your table or at my table, even though we have a small disagreement about the phrasing of the core gameplay loop as described in the introduction.</p><p></p><p>* for example:</p><p>The rogue uses their cunning action to hide: "I hide behind a nearby pillar" (step 2)</p><p>GM: "there isn't a pillar close enough for you to try that" (step 3)</p><p>--> it doesn't matter that the rogue is invoking their special ability, the dm is ruling they can't do that</p><p></p><p>My general point is that "no <strong>set of rules</strong> in the game can really give you player agency in 5e" by themselves. A game of 5e will involve interpretations and adjudication of rules every session. As stated previously:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Malmuria, post: 8431157, member: 7030755"] Per my earlier post This is a somewhat pedantic discussion as its about how the rules formally apportion roles and whether player agency comes from the rules or the social context of playing a game with friends. Your view, between this and the other thread, seems to be that whatever agency the players have come from the 300 pages of rules. Further, for you, adjudication of a rule seems to be contained in step 2, "the players describe what they want to do." If a rule says a thing then the PC does that thing, no questions about it. That is how a lot of people view the game, hence the concern for how rules are worded, the dislike of "natural language" that introduces possible contradictions or complications, and the focus on Jeremey Crawford's sage advice to clarify how rules are meant to function. It's also the view of the game that leads to players carving out rules exploits and such, because the rules are inviolable. My view is that the player can declare what they would like to do, but it is the DM that is interpreting adjudicating what that means within the context of the situation and their reading of the rule text. (In your cunning action example: does the player have a bonus action remaining? If they want to hide, is there a place available for them to hide?* Are they suffering from a condition that would prevent them taking a bonus action? Is there a homebrew spell effect in the area preventing bonus actions?) Since the DM is acting in good faith and using the rules, in practice that means when a player uses cunning action to hide, the same thing happens whether they are at your table or at my table, even though we have a small disagreement about the phrasing of the core gameplay loop as described in the introduction. * for example: The rogue uses their cunning action to hide: "I hide behind a nearby pillar" (step 2) GM: "there isn't a pillar close enough for you to try that" (step 3) --> it doesn't matter that the rogue is invoking their special ability, the dm is ruling they can't do that My general point is that "no [B]set of rules[/B] in the game can really give you player agency in 5e" by themselves. A game of 5e will involve interpretations and adjudication of rules every session. As stated previously: [/QUOTE]
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