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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Malmuria" data-source="post: 8431217" data-attributes="member: 7030755">My argument is not that players in dnd 5e lack agency.  My argument is that player agency stems more from the dynamic among everyone at the table than from the rules specifically, and that a ruleset in an rpg cannot guarantee player agency without trusting that the dm is trying to ensure a fun game (unlike, for example, in a game of blackjack or chess, where your opponent is trying to win.  DMs who set win conditions for themselves in dnd can deny player agency in all sorts of ways, some infamous).    As I've said, they have plenty of agency--they control what their characters do (step 2).  In response, the dm interprets and adjudicates, along the lines that you describe (step 3).Recall, in the other thread someone quoted this exact gameplay loop at called it "zero agency."  Their basis for saying this was that while the player could describe what action their character took, the dm could narrate any result.  <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/system-matters-and-free-kriegsspiel.682620/post-8418989" target="_blank">You seemed to agree</a>.  This surprised me, because while it might be formally true of the core gameplay loop as articulated in the 5e introduction, it doesn't correspond to what the dm actually does at any table worth playing at.</blockquote>