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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8432790" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I don't see I'm downplaying anything. </p><p></p><p>I see the argument for no win condition for the game to take one of two variants. The first is usually predicated on the idea that since you pass through many win conditions during play, and can always generate new win conditions, that there are effectively no win conditions for the game. I don't find this at all persuasive, as it's postulating that there's some meta-conception of the game that disconnected from actual play and that can never be resolved at any moment. To me, this is more a game that just iterates. When one set of win conditions is achieved or discarded, then another set is created, play continues. </p><p></p><p>The second version I see is more tautological -- there's an idea that you can't win D&D so therefore you cannot win D&D. This approach just ignores how play actually occurs in favor of an idealistic adherence to the idea that you can't win D&D. It tries to toss any notion of short, medium, or even long term goal and the achievements as irrelevant because you can't achieve everything. I don't find this compelling.</p><p></p><p>RPGs have win conditions. They are the essential motivator in the game. Experience systems are predicated on win conditions. Disclaiming their existence or impact because there's some idealistic conception of infinite possibility doesn't actually remove win conditions or their impact.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8432790, member: 16814"] I don't see I'm downplaying anything. I see the argument for no win condition for the game to take one of two variants. The first is usually predicated on the idea that since you pass through many win conditions during play, and can always generate new win conditions, that there are effectively no win conditions for the game. I don't find this at all persuasive, as it's postulating that there's some meta-conception of the game that disconnected from actual play and that can never be resolved at any moment. To me, this is more a game that just iterates. When one set of win conditions is achieved or discarded, then another set is created, play continues. The second version I see is more tautological -- there's an idea that you can't win D&D so therefore you cannot win D&D. This approach just ignores how play actually occurs in favor of an idealistic adherence to the idea that you can't win D&D. It tries to toss any notion of short, medium, or even long term goal and the achievements as irrelevant because you can't achieve everything. I don't find this compelling. RPGs have win conditions. They are the essential motivator in the game. Experience systems are predicated on win conditions. Disclaiming their existence or impact because there's some idealistic conception of infinite possibility doesn't actually remove win conditions or their impact. [/QUOTE]
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