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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8432869" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>The sport's team example seems to be confusing participants as independent things with the game itself and saying that since a participant doesn't have a win condition defined in the game, that the game therefore can't have win conditions because it has participants. It's not logically compelling.</p><p></p><p>Rather, the best I get from this would be to make the argument that baseball as a concept doesn't have a win condition -- that no matter how many games of baseball are played and won, no matter how many seasons of baseball occur, no matter how many WS championships are awarded, the game of baseball cannot be "won." As an abstract concept of a game, baseball doesn't ever resolve in this manner. Sure, we can similarly treat D&D this way, but then we're only every talking about the abstract concept of D&D as a game -- the entire hobby as it were. I can say that D&D doesn't have a win condition, like baseball does not. But, we don't play that D&D, just like you don't play that baseball. Instead, you play a realized instance of baseball, or D&D. Everyone does. You can't play the abstract conception. It's abstract.</p><p></p><p>So, D&D as a concept doesn't have win conditions, but D&D as a game that you actually play does. It iterates a cycle of these win conditions, and the ones left at the end of the game (all games end) will be fulfilled or not.</p><p></p><p>As another point here, discussing D&D as infinite is flawed because every instance of a D&D game is finite.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8432869, member: 16814"] The sport's team example seems to be confusing participants as independent things with the game itself and saying that since a participant doesn't have a win condition defined in the game, that the game therefore can't have win conditions because it has participants. It's not logically compelling. Rather, the best I get from this would be to make the argument that baseball as a concept doesn't have a win condition -- that no matter how many games of baseball are played and won, no matter how many seasons of baseball occur, no matter how many WS championships are awarded, the game of baseball cannot be "won." As an abstract concept of a game, baseball doesn't ever resolve in this manner. Sure, we can similarly treat D&D this way, but then we're only every talking about the abstract concept of D&D as a game -- the entire hobby as it were. I can say that D&D doesn't have a win condition, like baseball does not. But, we don't play that D&D, just like you don't play that baseball. Instead, you play a realized instance of baseball, or D&D. Everyone does. You can't play the abstract conception. It's abstract. So, D&D as a concept doesn't have win conditions, but D&D as a game that you actually play does. It iterates a cycle of these win conditions, and the ones left at the end of the game (all games end) will be fulfilled or not. As another point here, discussing D&D as infinite is flawed because every instance of a D&D game is finite. [/QUOTE]
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