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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8434560" data-attributes="member: 29398">All of those are temporary, or in-process, win conditions that reset for the next play or down or game or season.&nbsp; None of them say a team has &quot;won football&quot; outright.Further, every one of them comes at the expense of a directly-offsetting loss by someone else - the running back, the defensive team, the opposing team, etc. depending on scale.In D&amp;D the biggest difference is that while you might have a temporary win condition that applies both in the fiction and at the table, the offsetting loss only occurs in the fiction unless a DM is very adversarial.Another difference is - unlike gridiron football where a win for one member or part of a team is almost always a win for the whole team - while PC parties tend to co-operate most of the time there's no baked-in requirement that they must: they can and sometimes do operate toward conflicting goals, meaning a given event might represent a win condition for some players/PCs and a loss for others.Conclusion: it's just as valid to say you can't &quot;win football&quot; as it is to say you can't &quot;win D&amp;D&quot; in an overall sense; with the difference being that while D&amp;D looks at the overall game and says you can't win it, football focuses on those more-granular situations in which a team actually does win or lose while ignoring the overall or &quot;forever&quot; picture.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8434560, member: 29398"] All of those are temporary, or in-process, win conditions that reset for the next play or down or game or season. None of them say a team has "won football" outright. Further, every one of them comes at the expense of a directly-offsetting loss by someone else - the running back, the defensive team, the opposing team, etc. depending on scale. In D&D the biggest difference is that while you might have a temporary win condition that applies both in the fiction and at the table, the offsetting loss only occurs in the fiction unless a DM is [I]very[/I] adversarial. Another difference is - unlike gridiron football where a win for one member or part of a team is almost always a win for the whole team - while PC parties tend to co-operate most of the time there's no baked-in requirement that they must: they can and sometimes do operate toward conflicting goals, meaning a given event might represent a win condition for some players/PCs and a loss for others. Conclusion: it's just as valid to say you can't "win football" as it is to say you can't "win D&D" in an overall sense; with the difference being that while D&D looks at the overall game and says you can't win it, football focuses on those more-granular situations in which a team actually does win or lose while ignoring the overall or "forever" picture. [/QUOTE]

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