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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8434832" data-attributes="member: 7016699"><p>Yeah.</p><p></p><p>Also, I was way, <em>way</em> terser than your post deserved, and probably bordered on flippant. You didn't deserve that--apologies. I could (should) have put that post together differently.</p><p></p><p>Yeah. I think that in games, win/loss is closely tied to end states--either the game ends when you win (solve three Mysteries in Eldritch Horror, cure all the diseases in Pandemic, checkmate your opponent in chess), or you win when it ends (you have the fewest points in Hearts when someone else gets to 100). I think talking about winning/losing TRPGs gets tangled up in that, because ... I think those of us who don't think winning and losing apply don't plan or play, thinking about the games ending. [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] with is fifteen-year campaign is an outlier (no offense) but my own thinking tends toward 4 or 5 year campaigns.</p><p></p><p>Definitely different viewpoints. As I just said to [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] I'm seeing this more as a writer/reader than a player--and that's very much mostly how I tend to approach TRPGs. Think about the fact that my feeling about the Alien RPG (I think I said this to or around you at some point) is that it's plausibly an interesting-ish character-oriented/sandboxy game ... right up until the Xenomorphs show up and start slaughtering people; and that dichotomy seems ... dissonant to me, like from a design perspective (leaving the game mechanics and my problems with those aside).</p><p></p><p>Yeah. Analytics is changing sports. Well, in the sense that teams are able to see better how to optimize. In baseball (the sport I know best) the old stats--ERA, batting average, pitcher wins, RBI--are being rapidly deprecated. This is why stats like K/9, WHIP, OBP, and WOBA are more in vogue. It's arguable that front offices--like some TRPG players--have optimized the fun (or at least the beauty) out of the game. But you know both the math and the athletics involved better than I do, and plausibly see beauty in seeing those applied.</p><p></p><p>The difference between an unathletic writer/musician and an athletic science/math/engineering person, applied to TRPGs? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😉" title="Winking face :wink:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" data-shortname=":wink:" /> </p><p></p><p>In other words, I think your guess at the top that it was nature (the current output derived from past inputs) was ... pretty good.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="prabe, post: 8434832, member: 7016699"] Yeah. Also, I was way, [I]way[/I] terser than your post deserved, and probably bordered on flippant. You didn't deserve that--apologies. I could (should) have put that post together differently. Yeah. I think that in games, win/loss is closely tied to end states--either the game ends when you win (solve three Mysteries in Eldritch Horror, cure all the diseases in Pandemic, checkmate your opponent in chess), or you win when it ends (you have the fewest points in Hearts when someone else gets to 100). I think talking about winning/losing TRPGs gets tangled up in that, because ... I think those of us who don't think winning and losing apply don't plan or play, thinking about the games ending. [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] with is fifteen-year campaign is an outlier (no offense) but my own thinking tends toward 4 or 5 year campaigns. Definitely different viewpoints. As I just said to [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] I'm seeing this more as a writer/reader than a player--and that's very much mostly how I tend to approach TRPGs. Think about the fact that my feeling about the Alien RPG (I think I said this to or around you at some point) is that it's plausibly an interesting-ish character-oriented/sandboxy game ... right up until the Xenomorphs show up and start slaughtering people; and that dichotomy seems ... dissonant to me, like from a design perspective (leaving the game mechanics and my problems with those aside). Yeah. Analytics is changing sports. Well, in the sense that teams are able to see better how to optimize. In baseball (the sport I know best) the old stats--ERA, batting average, pitcher wins, RBI--are being rapidly deprecated. This is why stats like K/9, WHIP, OBP, and WOBA are more in vogue. It's arguable that front offices--like some TRPG players--have optimized the fun (or at least the beauty) out of the game. But you know both the math and the athletics involved better than I do, and plausibly see beauty in seeing those applied. The difference between an unathletic writer/musician and an athletic science/math/engineering person, applied to TRPGs? 😉 In other words, I think your guess at the top that it was nature (the current output derived from past inputs) was ... pretty good. [/QUOTE]
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