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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8436665" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>My recollection is that the <em>zero agency</em> remark was made in relation to a particular "play loop". And it was said because, in that play loop as it was being presented and articulated, (i) it appeared that the GM had the sole authority to establish any shared fiction, and (ii) there seemed to be no principles circumscribing that authority.</p><p></p><p>When examples were asked for which might show the play loop in action, and illustrate how shared fiction was established, the main on I recall is the fight on the plane, which didn't seem to contradict the "zero agency" remark - or, at least, it was utterly opaque how anything was going on there beyond the GM making stuff up in response to player prompts.</p><p></p><p>Burning Wheel says the following (p 242 of Revised):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">There are no random encounters in a Burning Wheel game - "encounters" have a point and drive the overall conflict of the game forward.</p><p></p><p>My view is that the same advice is applicable to 4e D&D. WotC did not agree (at least not uniformly): some 4e modules include random encounters, and it was quite common to suggest an essentially pointless encounter as the consequence of failure in a skill challenge.</p><p></p><p>In scene-framed play, an important part of the GM's job is to manage both the opening and closing of scenes. (This is important in any RPGing really - if no one ever "cuts" than eg everyone would have a very boring time while the PCs rest for 8 hours, or stride for days through the wilderness.)</p><p></p><p>From BW again (p 268 of Revised):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">More than any other player, the GM controls the flow and pacing of the game. He (sic) has the power to begin and end scenes. . . . Most important, the GM is responsible for introducing complications to the story and consequences to the players' choices.</p><p></p><p>This is pretty applicable to 4e also, but 4e gives more structure than BW because it has the concept of "encounter" without Burning Wheel's scare quotes. From the PHB, pp 9 and 259:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Encounters come in two types.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* Combat encounters are battles against nefarious foes. In a combat encounter, characters and monsters take turns attacking until one side or the other is defeated.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* Noncombat encounters include deadly traps, difficult puzzles, and other obstacles to overcome. Sometimes you overcome noncombat encounters by using your character’s skills, sometimes you can defeat them with clever uses of magic, and sometimes you have to puzzle them out with nothing but your wits. Noncombat encounters also include social interactions, such as attempts to persuade, bargain with, or obtain information from a nonplayer character (NPC) controlled by the DM. Whenever you decide that your character wants to talk to a person or monster, it’s a noncombat encounter. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Encounters serve many purposes. They are the times when D&D is most like a game, rather than an exercise in cooperative storytelling. They are when you most often bring your powers and skills to bear, when the information on your character sheet is most important. Even so, they should advance the story of an adventure; a pitched battle should have a reason and consequences that relate to your overall quest.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">In an encounter, either you succeed in overcoming a challenge or you fail and have to face the consequences. When an encounter begins, everyone has something to do, and it’s important for the whole group to work together to achieve success. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">When you’re making your way through a dungeon or across the trackless wilderness, you typically don’t take turns or make checks. But when you spring a trap or face a serious obstacle or hazard, you’re in a skill challenge. When you try to persuade a dragon to help you against an oncoming orc horde, you’re also in a skill challenge.</p><p></p><p>Encounters, in 4e, are bracketed by two other modes of play: <em>exploration</em>, and <em>rest</em>. From the PBH, pp 9-10, 260 and 262-63:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Between encounters, your characters explore the world. You make decisions about which way your character travels and what he or she tries to do next. Exploration is the give-and-take of you telling the DM what you want your character to do, and the DM telling you what happens when your character does it. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Decisions you make as you explore eventually lead to encounters. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">A significant part of D&D adventures is exploration, which takes place between encounters. Exploration includes making your way through unmapped dungeon corridors, untracked wilderness, or a sprawling city and exploring the environment’s dangers and wonders.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Exploration usually involves movement . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">A typical adventure environment is full of dangers, surprises, and puzzles. A dungeon room might hold a complex bank of mysterious levers, a statue positioned over a trap door, a locked chest, or a teleportation circle. Sometimes you need to cut through a rope, break a chain, bash down a door, lift a portcullis, or smash the Golden Orb of Khadros the Reaver before the villain can use it.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Your character’s interaction with the environment is often simple to resolve in the game. You tell the DM that you’re moving the lever on the right, and the DM tells you what happens, if anything. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">When you’re not in an encounter, you can take one of two types of rest: a short rest or an extended rest.</p><p></p><p>So generally the 4e D&D will frame scenes having regard to the priorities and principles I've outlined in posts upthread, and will end them when the combat and/or skill challenge is resolved. The management of rests and exploration in 4e is (in my experience) not wildly different from in other games (eg AD&D, Rolemaster, to some extent Burning Wheel) that feature these forms of play, except that the GM probably should keep a close eye on when exploration has led to a situation better resolved as a skill challenge. (A combat is probably more obvious.)</p><p></p><p>Information and scouting can be resolved via exploration, or as part of a skill challenge. It will depend on whether or not there is opposition in the situation: if there is, it should be resolved as a skill challenge, as per the quotes above from the PHB.</p><p></p><p>Inventory is handled as is usual in D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8436665, member: 42582"] My recollection is that the [I]zero agency[/I] remark was made in relation to a particular "play loop". And it was said because, in that play loop as it was being presented and articulated, (i) it appeared that the GM had the sole authority to establish any shared fiction, and (ii) there seemed to be no principles circumscribing that authority. When examples were asked for which might show the play loop in action, and illustrate how shared fiction was established, the main on I recall is the fight on the plane, which didn't seem to contradict the "zero agency" remark - or, at least, it was utterly opaque how anything was going on there beyond the GM making stuff up in response to player prompts. Burning Wheel says the following (p 242 of Revised): [indent]There are no random encounters in a Burning Wheel game - "encounters" have a point and drive the overall conflict of the game forward.[/indent] My view is that the same advice is applicable to 4e D&D. WotC did not agree (at least not uniformly): some 4e modules include random encounters, and it was quite common to suggest an essentially pointless encounter as the consequence of failure in a skill challenge. In scene-framed play, an important part of the GM's job is to manage both the opening and closing of scenes. (This is important in any RPGing really - if no one ever "cuts" than eg everyone would have a very boring time while the PCs rest for 8 hours, or stride for days through the wilderness.) From BW again (p 268 of Revised): [indent]More than any other player, the GM controls the flow and pacing of the game. He (sic) has the power to begin and end scenes. . . . Most important, the GM is responsible for introducing complications to the story and consequences to the players' choices.[/indent] This is pretty applicable to 4e also, but 4e gives more structure than BW because it has the concept of "encounter" without Burning Wheel's scare quotes. From the PHB, pp 9 and 259: [indent]Encounters come in two types. * Combat encounters are battles against nefarious foes. In a combat encounter, characters and monsters take turns attacking until one side or the other is defeated. * Noncombat encounters include deadly traps, difficult puzzles, and other obstacles to overcome. Sometimes you overcome noncombat encounters by using your character’s skills, sometimes you can defeat them with clever uses of magic, and sometimes you have to puzzle them out with nothing but your wits. Noncombat encounters also include social interactions, such as attempts to persuade, bargain with, or obtain information from a nonplayer character (NPC) controlled by the DM. Whenever you decide that your character wants to talk to a person or monster, it’s a noncombat encounter. . . . Encounters serve many purposes. They are the times when D&D is most like a game, rather than an exercise in cooperative storytelling. They are when you most often bring your powers and skills to bear, when the information on your character sheet is most important. Even so, they should advance the story of an adventure; a pitched battle should have a reason and consequences that relate to your overall quest. In an encounter, either you succeed in overcoming a challenge or you fail and have to face the consequences. When an encounter begins, everyone has something to do, and it’s important for the whole group to work together to achieve success. . . . When you’re making your way through a dungeon or across the trackless wilderness, you typically don’t take turns or make checks. But when you spring a trap or face a serious obstacle or hazard, you’re in a skill challenge. When you try to persuade a dragon to help you against an oncoming orc horde, you’re also in a skill challenge.[/indent] Encounters, in 4e, are bracketed by two other modes of play: [I]exploration[/I], and [I]rest[/I]. From the PBH, pp 9-10, 260 and 262-63: [indent]Between encounters, your characters explore the world. You make decisions about which way your character travels and what he or she tries to do next. Exploration is the give-and-take of you telling the DM what you want your character to do, and the DM telling you what happens when your character does it. . . . Decisions you make as you explore eventually lead to encounters. . . . A significant part of D&D adventures is exploration, which takes place between encounters. Exploration includes making your way through unmapped dungeon corridors, untracked wilderness, or a sprawling city and exploring the environment’s dangers and wonders. Exploration usually involves movement . . . A typical adventure environment is full of dangers, surprises, and puzzles. A dungeon room might hold a complex bank of mysterious levers, a statue positioned over a trap door, a locked chest, or a teleportation circle. Sometimes you need to cut through a rope, break a chain, bash down a door, lift a portcullis, or smash the Golden Orb of Khadros the Reaver before the villain can use it. Your character’s interaction with the environment is often simple to resolve in the game. You tell the DM that you’re moving the lever on the right, and the DM tells you what happens, if anything. . . . When you’re not in an encounter, you can take one of two types of rest: a short rest or an extended rest.[/indent] So generally the 4e D&D will frame scenes having regard to the priorities and principles I've outlined in posts upthread, and will end them when the combat and/or skill challenge is resolved. The management of rests and exploration in 4e is (in my experience) not wildly different from in other games (eg AD&D, Rolemaster, to some extent Burning Wheel) that feature these forms of play, except that the GM probably should keep a close eye on when exploration has led to a situation better resolved as a skill challenge. (A combat is probably more obvious.) Information and scouting can be resolved via exploration, or as part of a skill challenge. It will depend on whether or not there is opposition in the situation: if there is, it should be resolved as a skill challenge, as per the quotes above from the PHB. Inventory is handled as is usual in D&D. [/QUOTE]
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