Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 8437183" data-attributes="member: 6802765"><p>There's quite a bit of difference! Just not necessarily a difference regarding where the two campaigns fall on the sandbox spectrum. I don't know how to emphasize more clearly than I already have that the sandbox spectrum measures one aspect of play style in isolation.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If it's an entirely improvised campaign high on the sandbox spectrum, then use of Force to determine direction of play would create a contradiction. So I can't agree that a GM making everything up as they go is ripe for Force in terms of negating the players' strategic decisions. The more frequently the DM uses Force to override players' strategic choices, the lower that campaign fall on the sandbox spectrum. </p><p></p><p>Note that the GM could still use Force in other ways (e.g. altering enemy stats to cut short a battle for pacing purposes) equally well in either a pre-written or heavy-improv game. That wouldn't affect a campaigns's place on the spectrum.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. Strategic decisions exist at all levels of play. Giving the players occasional high-level open-ended decisions would make the campaign more sandboxy than an othererwise-identical campaign that didn't offer that choice, but it would still rate low on the sandbox spectrum unless somehow the high-level decisions outnumber the low-level decisions. (With a caveat again to the calibration issues I've flagged from the start.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>For purposes of the specification of the sandbox spectrum, I would consider tactical decisions to be those relating to resolution of the <em>immediate</em> scene. Strategic decisions, by contrast, would be those that determine the PCs plans and goals (both high-level and low-level), which influence future scenes and thus the direction of the campaign. I thought this distinction was evident based on how I was connecting the sandbox spectrum to player authority over campaign direction, but apparently it was not. I apologize for any confusion, and hope the definition of the sandbox spectrum is now more clear to you.</p><p></p><p>If it helps, here's an illustrative example of how I see strategic decisions at multiple levels in comprison to a tactical decision in relation to a PC assault on a fortress. A high-level strategic decision would be to try to breach the fortress in order to achieve high-level goal X. A lower-level strategic decision would be what resources to gather and prepare to enable a breach of the fortress. An even-lower level strategic decision would be devising the attack plan for how, where, and when to employ those resources to breach the fortress. Once at the chosen time and place to attempt the breach, a tactical decision would be what ability to use now to surmount any immediate obstacles and enable the desired breach.</p><p></p><p>All of these levels of strategic decisions determine the direction of the campaign (at correspondingly different scales). And all of these levels of strategic decisions are potentially constrained by table expectations to pick from a list of GM-provided options, or alternatively may be unconstrained. Thus, the spectrum takes all such decisions into account. (By contrast, tactical decisions are often constrained primarily by the ruleset being employed, with table expectations being a secondary parameter.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xetheral, post: 8437183, member: 6802765"] There's quite a bit of difference! Just not necessarily a difference regarding where the two campaigns fall on the sandbox spectrum. I don't know how to emphasize more clearly than I already have that the sandbox spectrum measures one aspect of play style in isolation. If it's an entirely improvised campaign high on the sandbox spectrum, then use of Force to determine direction of play would create a contradiction. So I can't agree that a GM making everything up as they go is ripe for Force in terms of negating the players' strategic decisions. The more frequently the DM uses Force to override players' strategic choices, the lower that campaign fall on the sandbox spectrum. Note that the GM could still use Force in other ways (e.g. altering enemy stats to cut short a battle for pacing purposes) equally well in either a pre-written or heavy-improv game. That wouldn't affect a campaigns's place on the spectrum. No. Strategic decisions exist at all levels of play. Giving the players occasional high-level open-ended decisions would make the campaign more sandboxy than an othererwise-identical campaign that didn't offer that choice, but it would still rate low on the sandbox spectrum unless somehow the high-level decisions outnumber the low-level decisions. (With a caveat again to the calibration issues I've flagged from the start.) For purposes of the specification of the sandbox spectrum, I would consider tactical decisions to be those relating to resolution of the [I]immediate[/I] scene. Strategic decisions, by contrast, would be those that determine the PCs plans and goals (both high-level and low-level), which influence future scenes and thus the direction of the campaign. I thought this distinction was evident based on how I was connecting the sandbox spectrum to player authority over campaign direction, but apparently it was not. I apologize for any confusion, and hope the definition of the sandbox spectrum is now more clear to you. If it helps, here's an illustrative example of how I see strategic decisions at multiple levels in comprison to a tactical decision in relation to a PC assault on a fortress. A high-level strategic decision would be to try to breach the fortress in order to achieve high-level goal X. A lower-level strategic decision would be what resources to gather and prepare to enable a breach of the fortress. An even-lower level strategic decision would be devising the attack plan for how, where, and when to employ those resources to breach the fortress. Once at the chosen time and place to attempt the breach, a tactical decision would be what ability to use now to surmount any immediate obstacles and enable the desired breach. All of these levels of strategic decisions determine the direction of the campaign (at correspondingly different scales). And all of these levels of strategic decisions are potentially constrained by table expectations to pick from a list of GM-provided options, or alternatively may be unconstrained. Thus, the spectrum takes all such decisions into account. (By contrast, tactical decisions are often constrained primarily by the ruleset being employed, with table expectations being a secondary parameter.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
Top