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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8439330" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>That's not what I mean by <em>situation first</em>, though. See [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]'s post not far upthread about my use of backstory/setting.</p><p></p><p>Here are examples of backstory: <em>There is an Order, the Knights of the Iron Tower</em>; <em>I have a mother, Xanthippe, whom I left behind in Auxol when I left to join the Order</em>; <em>There is (or was) a faction in the Order who crossed paths with Evard and his demons</em>; <em>Xanthippe is the daughter of the demon-summoner Evard</em>.</p><p></p><p>In my BW game, I (the player of Thurgon) wrote the first two bits of backstory. My GM wrote the second two.</p><p></p><p>Here are examples of situation: <em>You come upon a ruined fortress of the Iron Tower, the stones scorched as if by a great fire</em>; <em>As you approach Evard's tower, there is a demon! . . . It says something about the "Sunstone" [something also mentioned in journals found in the ruined fortress]</em>; <em>You find letters in Evard's tower, addressing him as "Papa" and signed "Xanthippe"</em>; <em>When you step into the hall at Auxol, you see Xanthippe. She looks much older than you remember. She starts to chide you for having left her for so long . . .</em>.</p><p></p><p>The GM framed all of these, but in each case with a different prompt to do so. The first was narration of a new scene, largely unprompted - the sort of thing that the AW rulebook says the GM should do when the players all look at the GM to see what happens next. The second followed from two successful checks - first a Great Masters-wise check (by Aramina) which confirmed the accuracy of her recollection that Evard's tower was "around here"; and then a Circles check by Thurgon to meet a former knight of the Order who could ferry the two of them along the river to near the location of the tower. The demon was the GM's addition!; and his subsequent narration of what the demon said and did as Thurgon fought it established the third bit of backstory mentioned above. The third situation was narrated as the consequence of a Scavenging check in the tower, I think a failure; it established the fourth bit of backstory mentioned above. The fourth situation was a scene that I as a player was entitled to ask for, as - as part of PC build - Thurgon has a Relationship with Xanthippe, and (Revised, p 109) "Meeting and consulting with a relationship character doesn't require a roll. . . . So long as it is reasonably feasible in he game context, a player can have his character visit his relationship contacts freely and often."</p><p></p><p>I hope this makes clear how <em>situation</em> and <em>backstory</em> are related in a "situation-first" approach to RPGing. And that it further brings out the contrast to a backstory-first sandbox.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, there can't be a scene without content - place, people, some sort of history (unless it's an amnesia-focused game), etc - but where does this come from, and what is it's relationship to the PCs and to action resolution?</p><p></p><p>Look at the difference between [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER]'s description of how the Iron Tower might be used as an element of the game in a living sandbox, and look at my descriptions in this post and earlier in this thread. They are different processes! They orient the participants differently in relation to the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Look at how Scavenging checks are adjudicated. The situation is first - <em>Here's this place, I'm looking for this thing</em> - and then the backstory follows - <em>You find this, or you find that</em> - as is appropriate to success or failure and the broader context of the PC's goal in undertaking the search.</p><p></p><p>That is a very different process from how a search of a tower or a homestead is adjudicated in map-and-key resolution.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In any given moment of adjudication there's no spectrum: either the backstory is consulted and used to determine the consequence of the action declaration (eg according to the key, there's nothing here - so the answer is <em>You find nothing</em>; according to the key, there's no friendly former knight in this place, so the answer is <em>No, you don't find any friendly ferryman</em>; according to the key, Rufus is unable to be turned from his forced loyalty to "the master", and so there is no chance to bring him into alignment with Thurgon and his aspirations to liberate Auxol; etc); or the situation is framed, the resolution process deployed, and then appropriate backstory is established as a result of that (eg Rufus fails his Steel check, and so we know he is still capable of feeling shame; or in Classic Traveller, the reaction roll tells us that the enemy captain is friendly - <em>You remind me of my kid sister!</em>, and so now it is established that the captain has a younger sister and that the PC reminds him or her; etc).</p><p></p><p></p><p>The key passage from your quote on OC/Neotrad is <em>The DM becomes a curator and facilitator who primarily works with material derived from other sources - publishers and players, in practice. OC culture has a different sense of what a "story" is, one that focuses on player aspirations and interests and their realisation as the best way to produce "fun" for the players.</em></p><p></p><p>I don't think this is an approach that really involves strong <em>situation</em>, as the GM is <em>curating</em>, not applying pressure, with the aim of <em>realising the players' aspirations</em>. This can't work if situation is taken seriously, I don't think.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8439330, member: 42582"] That's not what I mean by [I]situation first[/I], though. See [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER]'s post not far upthread about my use of backstory/setting. Here are examples of backstory: [I]There is an Order, the Knights of the Iron Tower[/I]; [I]I have a mother, Xanthippe, whom I left behind in Auxol when I left to join the Order[/I]; [I]There is (or was) a faction in the Order who crossed paths with Evard and his demons[/I]; [I]Xanthippe is the daughter of the demon-summoner Evard[/I]. In my BW game, I (the player of Thurgon) wrote the first two bits of backstory. My GM wrote the second two. Here are examples of situation: [I]You come upon a ruined fortress of the Iron Tower, the stones scorched as if by a great fire[/I]; [I]As you approach Evard's tower, there is a demon! . . . It says something about the "Sunstone" [something also mentioned in journals found in the ruined fortress][/I]; [I]You find letters in Evard's tower, addressing him as "Papa" and signed "Xanthippe"[/I]; [I]When you step into the hall at Auxol, you see Xanthippe. She looks much older than you remember. She starts to chide you for having left her for so long . . .[/I]. The GM framed all of these, but in each case with a different prompt to do so. The first was narration of a new scene, largely unprompted - the sort of thing that the AW rulebook says the GM should do when the players all look at the GM to see what happens next. The second followed from two successful checks - first a Great Masters-wise check (by Aramina) which confirmed the accuracy of her recollection that Evard's tower was "around here"; and then a Circles check by Thurgon to meet a former knight of the Order who could ferry the two of them along the river to near the location of the tower. The demon was the GM's addition!; and his subsequent narration of what the demon said and did as Thurgon fought it established the third bit of backstory mentioned above. The third situation was narrated as the consequence of a Scavenging check in the tower, I think a failure; it established the fourth bit of backstory mentioned above. The fourth situation was a scene that I as a player was entitled to ask for, as - as part of PC build - Thurgon has a Relationship with Xanthippe, and (Revised, p 109) "Meeting and consulting with a relationship character doesn't require a roll. . . . So long as it is reasonably feasible in he game context, a player can have his character visit his relationship contacts freely and often." I hope this makes clear how [I]situation[/I] and [I]backstory[/I] are related in a "situation-first" approach to RPGing. And that it further brings out the contrast to a backstory-first sandbox. Well, there can't be a scene without content - place, people, some sort of history (unless it's an amnesia-focused game), etc - but where does this come from, and what is it's relationship to the PCs and to action resolution? Look at the difference between [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER]'s description of how the Iron Tower might be used as an element of the game in a living sandbox, and look at my descriptions in this post and earlier in this thread. They are different processes! They orient the participants differently in relation to the fiction. Look at how Scavenging checks are adjudicated. The situation is first - [i]Here's this place, I'm looking for this thing[/i] - and then the backstory follows - [I]You find this, or you find that[/I] - as is appropriate to success or failure and the broader context of the PC's goal in undertaking the search. That is a very different process from how a search of a tower or a homestead is adjudicated in map-and-key resolution. In any given moment of adjudication there's no spectrum: either the backstory is consulted and used to determine the consequence of the action declaration (eg according to the key, there's nothing here - so the answer is [I]You find nothing[/I]; according to the key, there's no friendly former knight in this place, so the answer is [I]No, you don't find any friendly ferryman[/I]; according to the key, Rufus is unable to be turned from his forced loyalty to "the master", and so there is no chance to bring him into alignment with Thurgon and his aspirations to liberate Auxol; etc); or the situation is framed, the resolution process deployed, and then appropriate backstory is established as a result of that (eg Rufus fails his Steel check, and so we know he is still capable of feeling shame; or in Classic Traveller, the reaction roll tells us that the enemy captain is friendly - [I]You remind me of my kid sister![/I], and so now it is established that the captain has a younger sister and that the PC reminds him or her; etc). The key passage from your quote on OC/Neotrad is [I]The DM becomes a curator and facilitator who primarily works with material derived from other sources - publishers and players, in practice. OC culture has a different sense of what a "story" is, one that focuses on player aspirations and interests and their realisation as the best way to produce "fun" for the players.[/I] I don't think this is an approach that really involves strong [I]situation[/I], as the GM is [I]curating[/I], not applying pressure, with the aim of [I]realising the players' aspirations[/I]. This can't work if situation is taken seriously, I don't think. [/QUOTE]
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