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Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="Malmuria" data-source="post: 8444793" data-attributes="member: 7030755"><p>Well that's the thing about words...they have connotations and associations that exceed their literal meanings. And yes, generally, "active" has more positive connotations than "passive."</p><p></p><p>Relatedly, it's not the best word to actually describe what you are trying to describe. The 5e play loop does not situate the player in an inherently passive position. Passive players are those that are not engaged or have no reaction to the world as presented. I would say that 5e players are <em>reactive</em>: the DM initiates the play loop, the player responds, and then the DM responds in turn. The GM has more work to do in their steps, but that does not mean that all the puzzle-solving and tactical combat-having is passive (let alone the character-building and backstory-creating, which may as well be a pillar of play).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps more importantly, "passive" may or may not be how players describe their own experience with a system. For example, Call of Cthulhu scenarios are fairly linear, and a lot of what the keeper does is literally hand the players sheets with pre-made backstory. Yet from experience I've had, players find that experience to be engaging and dialogic, involving both their imagination and problem-solving skills. When considered in the whole range of ttrpgs, it's easy to forget that even traditional games and linear scenarios feel very "active" for a lot of people, new and continuing players. That feeling of engagement is what draws people to 5e as well. </p><p></p><p>Unlike me, you seem very confident that you can look at other people's games, and overwrite their own experiences. That if someone (and actually lots of people) say that they play 5e modules more or less by the book, and they find the time they spend with their characters to be active, collaborative, and engaging, you'll be able to step in with your "unromantic" analysis (with its already-set categories) and say, "nope, 5e is passive." That's what I mean when I say you are articulating a prescriptive, axiomatic perspective in these posts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Malmuria, post: 8444793, member: 7030755"] Well that's the thing about words...they have connotations and associations that exceed their literal meanings. And yes, generally, "active" has more positive connotations than "passive." Relatedly, it's not the best word to actually describe what you are trying to describe. The 5e play loop does not situate the player in an inherently passive position. Passive players are those that are not engaged or have no reaction to the world as presented. I would say that 5e players are [I]reactive[/I]: the DM initiates the play loop, the player responds, and then the DM responds in turn. The GM has more work to do in their steps, but that does not mean that all the puzzle-solving and tactical combat-having is passive (let alone the character-building and backstory-creating, which may as well be a pillar of play). Perhaps more importantly, "passive" may or may not be how players describe their own experience with a system. For example, Call of Cthulhu scenarios are fairly linear, and a lot of what the keeper does is literally hand the players sheets with pre-made backstory. Yet from experience I've had, players find that experience to be engaging and dialogic, involving both their imagination and problem-solving skills. When considered in the whole range of ttrpgs, it's easy to forget that even traditional games and linear scenarios feel very "active" for a lot of people, new and continuing players. That feeling of engagement is what draws people to 5e as well. Unlike me, you seem very confident that you can look at other people's games, and overwrite their own experiences. That if someone (and actually lots of people) say that they play 5e modules more or less by the book, and they find the time they spend with their characters to be active, collaborative, and engaging, you'll be able to step in with your "unromantic" analysis (with its already-set categories) and say, "nope, 5e is passive." That's what I mean when I say you are articulating a prescriptive, axiomatic perspective in these posts. [/QUOTE]
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