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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1526671" data-attributes="member: 6875">Except Vow of Poverty provides exactly that: magic weapons.&nbsp; Even manufactured ones!&nbsp; An ascetic is allowed to have, adn wield, a single simple weapon.&nbsp; For example, a quarterstaff (a simple double weapon, no less).&nbsp; Let's say our 20th level ascetic - a high level fighter or some such - has the entire TWF feat chain.&nbsp; And every attack - with both ends of the double weapon - is made with a +5 weapon.&nbsp; That's what Exalted Strike does, in as many words: &quot;In effect, any weapon the character wields becomes a +1 magic weapon&quot;.&nbsp; Actually, at 20th level, replace that +1 with a +5.&nbsp; &nbsp; Yet, Mr. Drader would have us believe that having the benefits of a magic weapon from any source, in any way, violates the Vow of Poverty.&nbsp; So, doesn't that mean the Vow of Poverty itself violates the Vow of Poverty?&nbsp; And then there is the fact that, based on what Mr. Drader has stated, ONLY a Monk who imbues his unarmed strikes would violate the Vow of Peace; a Fighter with the Unarmed Strike feat, or with natural weapons of his own, would not.&nbsp; So then - why does a (for example) human monk/kensai ascetic violate their vow by imbuing their fists, while a half-dragon fighter/kensai ascetic who imbues his claws, does not violate their vow?&nbsp; Why does a Monk/Kensai violate the vow of peace by imbuing their fists as signature weapons, but a Monk/Tattooed Monk with five magical tattoos doesn't ... ?&nbsp; There are too many holes, too many failures oflogic, for Mr. Drader's ruling to make sense.&nbsp; And if it doesn't make sense ...&nbsp; ...&nbsp; As for gaining +9 &quot;worth&quot; of special abilities &quot;for free&quot;, as James objected to: so what?&nbsp; Archers can do that, easily and just as much for &quot;free&quot; ... and then some!&nbsp; Take a Bow with +1 enhancement and +9 in special abilities.&nbsp; Have your friendly cleric throw a Greater Magic Weapon spell on the bow.&nbsp; *poof* same effect.&nbsp; And a non-ascetic Monk/Kensai could do that, too.&nbsp; Imbue their unarmed strikes with +1 enhancement, +9 abilities ... then, if there's no friendly cleric willing to blow a couple GMW's, just buy a +5 amulet of mighty fists.&nbsp; *poof*, again.&nbsp; In the case of a Kensai who imbues their natural weapons or unarmed attacks, I see no reason to call the result a &quot;material possession&quot; or &quot;magic item&quot; in any sense of either term, that would lead to concluding the Vow of Poverty was violated.&nbsp; That road leads to ascetic spellcasters of all stripes voiding their Vow simply by casting permanency, at the most basic possible level.&nbsp; And other strangeness, like &quot;what is the difference between the kensai's signature weapon ability and the tattoo'd monk's magic tattoos, when the kensai umbues his own body?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pax, post: 1526671, member: 6875"] Except Vow of Poverty provides [b]exactly[/b] that: magic weapons. Even [b]manufactured[/b] ones! An ascetic is allowed to have, adn wield, a single simple weapon. For example, a quarterstaff (a simple [b]double[/b] weapon, no less). Let's say our 20th level ascetic - a high level fighter or some such - has the entire TWF feat chain. [b]And every attack - with [b]both[/b] ends of the double weapon - is made with a +5 weapon.[/b] That's what Exalted Strike does, [b]in as many words[/b]: "In effect, any weapon the character wields becomes a +1 magic weapon". Actually, at 20th level, replace that +1 with a +5. Yet, Mr. Drader would have us believe that having the benefits of a magic weapon from [b]any[/b] source, in [b]any[/b] way, violates the Vow of Poverty. So, doesn't that mean the Vow of Poverty [b]itself[/b] violates the Vow of Poverty? And then there is the fact that, based on what Mr. Drader has stated, ONLY a Monk who imbues his unarmed strikes would violate the Vow of Peace; a Fighter with the Unarmed Strike feat, or with natural weapons of his own, would not. So then - why does a (for example) human monk/kensai ascetic violate their vow by imbuing their fists, while a half-dragon fighter/kensai ascetic who imbues his claws, [b]does not[/b] violate their vow? Why does a Monk/Kensai violate the vow of peace by imbuing their fists as signature weapons, but a Monk/Tattooed Monk with five magical tattoos [b]doesn't[/b] ... ? There are too many holes, too many failures oflogic, for Mr. Drader's ruling to make sense. And if it doesn't make sense ... ... As for gaining +9 "worth" of special abilities "for free", as James objected to: so what? Archers can do that, easily and [b]just[/b] as much for "free" ... [i]and then some[/i]! Take a Bow with +1 enhancement and +9 in special abilities. Have your friendly cleric throw a [i]Greater Magic Weapon[/i] spell on the bow. [b]*poof*[/b] same effect. And a non-ascetic Monk/Kensai could do that, too. Imbue their unarmed strikes with +1 enhancement, +9 abilities ... then, if there's no friendly cleric willing to blow a couple GMW's, just buy a +5 amulet of mighty fists. [b]*poof*[/b], again. In the case of a Kensai who imbues their natural weapons or unarmed attacks, I see [b]no[/b] reason to call the result a "material possession" or "magic item" in any sense of either term, that would lead to concluding the Vow of Poverty was violated. That road leads to ascetic spellcasters of all stripes voiding their Vow simply by casting [i]permanency[/i], at the most basic possible level. And other strangeness, like "what is the difference between the kensai's signature weapon ability and the tattoo'd monk's magic tattoos, when the kensai umbues his own body?" [/QUOTE]

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