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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 1526943" data-attributes="member: 7808">Honestly, I don't see combining the monk and Kensai to be all that powerful, even with VoP.First, consider the prerequisite of Combat Expertise.  This requires the monk to have an Int of 13 or above.  Considering the fact that Int and Cha are the closest thing the monk has to a dump stat, this is going to make him spread his abilities thinner than they already are.Next, consider what the monk gets from the Kensai: he can attack as though he had +10 worth of bonuses with his natural attack.  Considering that VoP will already grant a +5 enhancement bonus at level 20, this translates into the monk geting +9 worth of special powers on his attacks.  Also, he gets a surge-like ability usable a couple of times a day, and some intersting social benefits.  All in all, some nice combat abilities that you're paying 10 levels and extra XP to get.Now, look at what the monk is giving up by taking the prestige class instead of the monk class: 1d10 worth of damage, a better flurry, good fort and reflex saves, +30 ft of speed, a better Ki Strike, immunity to poison, dimension door, spell resistance, a death attack, immunity to aging, free languages, the ability to go ethereal, damage reduction 10/magic, and a point of BAB to boot.  Pretty much everything that makes a monk a monk.Do you think that +9 worth of special attacking powers and a surge ability is worth all that?  I can think of a few situations where it would be, but overall, it's not much of an advantage.  And in the situations where it is an advantage, it's because the character has effectively become a decent damage dealer instead of the second-line melee type that the monk is normally forced into.  Different than a standard monk, yes.  Overpowered, hardly.  (FWIW, I haven't seen too many builds with VoP that seem overpowered.  The ones that are really amazing are actually druids.  VoP turns Wildshape into a much nastier beast than the monk will ever be, Kensai or not.)So, in conclusion, I think that the knee-jerk reaction to stop the Kensai from working with a monk and VoP for power reasons to be kind of silly.  (I will admit, I haven't playtested it, so this is strictly a theoretical comparison).  Furthermore, the "nonsensical rulings" that you mention are only coming up because people are trying to find a way to make the Kensai not work with VoP.  Seems to me like a case of people cutting off their nose in spite of their face, not realizing that their face wasn't even that bad to begin with.</blockquote>

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