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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1528288" data-attributes="member: 6875">Your've pointed out how the Kensai with Vow of Poverty can get +9 in special abilities with his signature weapon, and still have a +5 enhancement to his attack.  In other words, you've pointed out how the ascetic kensai would have +4 of special abilities "for free".  And I pointed out that, with Greater Magic Weapon, any standard character (kensai or not) can do the same thing.  Only because the Kensai would have to start with a Masterwork crossbow, and the masterwork crossbow - before being imbued - would violate the Vow.  Because, of the three options, the archer and staff-wielder are suboptimal applications of the class/vow combination, that's why.  By the logic used by Darrin, an ascetic half-dragon fighter/kensai can imbue his claws, without violating their vow (because they don't have a class ability that describes their claws as "counting" as both natural and manufactured for thepurposes of certain spells and related effects).  Why should a non-monk get BETTER benefits with essentially unarmed attacks, than a mok does?  And what precisely is wrong with finding an optimised way to apply a given feat and/or class?  An druid/kensai gives up a lot of his druidic "Schtick" (including wildshaping ability) to get those kensai levels.  A half-dragon fighter doesn't get all the goodies - like an eventually MUCH better hand to hand damage rating - that a pure monk gets.  And that's true, with or without the Vow of Poverty.  Stop comparing an Ascetic Kensai to a non-kensai.  Compare ascetic kensai to NON-ascetic kensai.  Not really.  A pure VoP Monk will only have to truly worry about material-based DR, and getting levels of Kensai won't change that.  All the remedies that a non-ascetic monk would have to pursue, are the same things the ascetic monk wouldhave to pursue.  And they generally involve turning to the friendly spellcaster next to them, and asking icely for a bit of a helping hand.  Consider, that I happen to find greatermagci weapon applied to extant magic weapons to be a cheap shot, too.  And rather than outright FORBID something, I prefer to try and find ways to FIX things - as you should well know, having co-GMed with me online for over a year now.  The point is, I find an ascetic Kensai no more unbalanced than anyone with access - direct or indirect - to greater magic weapon.  I ight so limit the ascetic kensai.  Probably I'd just shrug, say "no worse than GMW on a +1 vorpal brilliant energy scimitar", and leave well enough alone - without voiding the ascetic kensai's Vow.  I wouldn't allow that in a nonmetal weapon, either - as the enhancemetn specifically says it involves working actual silver into the weapon after the fact.  Since it retains it's own material properties,and only penetrates DR based on silver, it's a +1 enhancement, rather than a material construction cost.  But the concept is the same.  And veins of silver forged directly into one's skin, tends to be detrimental to one's health ...  Bull.  Ascetic monk's Cleric friend casts "weapon of energy" on the monk's fists, granting him one of [flaming / frost / screaming / acidic / shocking].  The cleric then casts weapon of impact, and doubles the monk's threat range, too.  Then the ascetic monk drinks the potion of Ghostform thathis Master Alchemist friend just handed to him (yes, ascetics can drink potions someone gives them TO drink), becoming incorporeal (and thus losing any miss% against incorporeal foes).  Spells can do it, quite handily in fact.  So why is it so horrible andunbalanced if the character, instead of cajoling his friends for their resources, spends his OWN levels, feats, and experience points to gain those benefits ... ?</blockquote>

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