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Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room
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<blockquote data-quote="shoak1" data-source="post: 7153410" data-attributes="member: 54380"><p>We are saying the same thing here hawkeye. The published adventures are indeed designed and balanced with the expectation of multiple encounters per day - populated with monsters that become a pushover if the PCs are able to rest considerably more often than once every 6-8 encounters.</p><p></p><p> Right, so theoretically therefore the published adventures should routinely provide these limits (time constraints, dangerous inescapable areas and such) so as to constrain rest frequency right?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right again - the published adventures provide almost no constraints on rest, that's my point!!!! Everything regarding rest constraint is thrown squarely in the lap of the DM with no help. </p><p></p><p>Take for example Curse of Strahd. There are no time constraints in any of the eight Adventure Hooks, the plot lines, or any of the quests given by NPCs - not a one. And with very few exceptions, there are no geographic restraints restricting access to safe rest areas. Outdoor encounters average 0.6/day, half of those wouldn't even disrupt a rest, and none of the encounters are challenging to a party of level 3 or higher determined to rest-encounter-rest. So the PCs can pretty much plop down in the middle of the road, without precautions and whenever and wherever they want, and probably get a long rest. While they might have bad luck and roll an encounter, just rinse repeat. No problem.</p><p></p><p>Now theoretically, another way to handle too many long rests is to scale up encounters. In the Village of Krezk, there is only one meaningful encounter (7 wights=4900 XP), but it is enough to challenge a party of four level 5 PCs as suggested. Ditto the Ruins of Berez and Werewolf Den. In Old Bonegrinder, the 3 night hags (XP=5,400) might even prove insurmoutable to a fully rested party. But in the other 9 encounter areas, including Castle Ravenloft (by far the biggest encounter area), the encounters are not scaled up to provide a challenge to a well-rested party.</p><p></p><p>They could have included any number of things to fix the rest problem in CoS. For instance, you could have the mists move closer together every day, and the PCs could thereby estimate they have 18 days to defeat Strahd "or else". By introducing these sorts of mechanisms in published materials, it helps DMs by giving them concrete examples of ways to enforce the resource management that is so crucial to the game balance, without making the players feel railroaded.</p><p></p><p>It's really bad game and product design to go into such considerable detail in so many comparatively minor areas (like bonuses to saves for a particular creature), while giving virtually no written details on such a fundamentally important feature of a game as the 6-8 encounter a day presumption!!!!! What the heck does it matter if I get 5, 10, or 15 spells a day, or if I have 30 hp vs. 50, if I can rest after every encounter, or almost every encounter?!?!?!?</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Potential exceptions and notable rest-related material: </em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>1) Death House (the level 1-3 prequel) has the hilarious enclosing mists that could be interpreted to preclude a long rest.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>2) There is a passage on p.39 that mentions the PCs being able to get undisturbed rest and sanctuary in the Mad Mages castle, but no guidance as to how that is different from the norm.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>3) On page 7, it is indicated that PCs get a sign of something to come (in a dream) when they rest.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>4) Once in a great while (every 30 days or so) the party might randomly encounter werewolves who might track them through the day then interrupt their rest, as per p. 32. Of course nothing constrains the PCs from just resting after that encounter....</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>5) The Ruins of Berez have insect swarms that specifically accost PCs attempting to rest off the road in the marsh (of course the PCs can just rest on the road or leave the area and rest).</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>6) There is a possible curse in the Werewolf Den that is inflicted on a PC that steals from the area that prevents him from resting (removed via a remove curse).</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>7) The Vallaki Festival (scheduled for a few days after the PCs arrive) and a few events there could serve to constrain rest, but it these are very unlikely and short-lived constraints.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>8) There are three items of treasure that are limited in their use to 7 days (phantom warrior henchman), 10 days (a few of the Dark Gifts granted in the crypt of Ravenloft). These could theoretically accelerate a PCs timeline but the phantom buddy is of little use and the Dark Gifts come with some intense down sides so......</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>9) Resting IN Castle Ravenloft is effectively precluded by the frequency of encounters, but this is easily countered by hiding (magical or otherwise) or by.....leaving the castle lol <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>10) There are a couple minor quests involving saving missing children, which could make the PCs inclined to accelerate their timeline.</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>11) Page 10 refers to having the PCs possibly encounter Strahd a time or two prior to them reaching the castle. He toys with them and then flees, allowing the PCs to rest again....</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>12) Once every 33 days or so the party might encounter a revenant which could challenge a very low level party.</em></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="shoak1, post: 7153410, member: 54380"] We are saying the same thing here hawkeye. The published adventures are indeed designed and balanced with the expectation of multiple encounters per day - populated with monsters that become a pushover if the PCs are able to rest considerably more often than once every 6-8 encounters. Right, so theoretically therefore the published adventures should routinely provide these limits (time constraints, dangerous inescapable areas and such) so as to constrain rest frequency right? Right again - the published adventures provide almost no constraints on rest, that's my point!!!! Everything regarding rest constraint is thrown squarely in the lap of the DM with no help. Take for example Curse of Strahd. There are no time constraints in any of the eight Adventure Hooks, the plot lines, or any of the quests given by NPCs - not a one. And with very few exceptions, there are no geographic restraints restricting access to safe rest areas. Outdoor encounters average 0.6/day, half of those wouldn't even disrupt a rest, and none of the encounters are challenging to a party of level 3 or higher determined to rest-encounter-rest. So the PCs can pretty much plop down in the middle of the road, without precautions and whenever and wherever they want, and probably get a long rest. While they might have bad luck and roll an encounter, just rinse repeat. No problem. Now theoretically, another way to handle too many long rests is to scale up encounters. In the Village of Krezk, there is only one meaningful encounter (7 wights=4900 XP), but it is enough to challenge a party of four level 5 PCs as suggested. Ditto the Ruins of Berez and Werewolf Den. In Old Bonegrinder, the 3 night hags (XP=5,400) might even prove insurmoutable to a fully rested party. But in the other 9 encounter areas, including Castle Ravenloft (by far the biggest encounter area), the encounters are not scaled up to provide a challenge to a well-rested party. They could have included any number of things to fix the rest problem in CoS. For instance, you could have the mists move closer together every day, and the PCs could thereby estimate they have 18 days to defeat Strahd "or else". By introducing these sorts of mechanisms in published materials, it helps DMs by giving them concrete examples of ways to enforce the resource management that is so crucial to the game balance, without making the players feel railroaded. It's really bad game and product design to go into such considerable detail in so many comparatively minor areas (like bonuses to saves for a particular creature), while giving virtually no written details on such a fundamentally important feature of a game as the 6-8 encounter a day presumption!!!!! What the heck does it matter if I get 5, 10, or 15 spells a day, or if I have 30 hp vs. 50, if I can rest after every encounter, or almost every encounter?!?!?!? [SIZE=1][I]Potential exceptions and notable rest-related material: 1) Death House (the level 1-3 prequel) has the hilarious enclosing mists that could be interpreted to preclude a long rest. 2) There is a passage on p.39 that mentions the PCs being able to get undisturbed rest and sanctuary in the Mad Mages castle, but no guidance as to how that is different from the norm. 3) On page 7, it is indicated that PCs get a sign of something to come (in a dream) when they rest. 4) Once in a great while (every 30 days or so) the party might randomly encounter werewolves who might track them through the day then interrupt their rest, as per p. 32. Of course nothing constrains the PCs from just resting after that encounter.... 5) The Ruins of Berez have insect swarms that specifically accost PCs attempting to rest off the road in the marsh (of course the PCs can just rest on the road or leave the area and rest). 6) There is a possible curse in the Werewolf Den that is inflicted on a PC that steals from the area that prevents him from resting (removed via a remove curse). 7) The Vallaki Festival (scheduled for a few days after the PCs arrive) and a few events there could serve to constrain rest, but it these are very unlikely and short-lived constraints. 8) There are three items of treasure that are limited in their use to 7 days (phantom warrior henchman), 10 days (a few of the Dark Gifts granted in the crypt of Ravenloft). These could theoretically accelerate a PCs timeline but the phantom buddy is of little use and the Dark Gifts come with some intense down sides so...... 9) Resting IN Castle Ravenloft is effectively precluded by the frequency of encounters, but this is easily countered by hiding (magical or otherwise) or by.....leaving the castle lol :) 10) There are a couple minor quests involving saving missing children, which could make the PCs inclined to accelerate their timeline. 11) Page 10 refers to having the PCs possibly encounter Strahd a time or two prior to them reaching the castle. He toys with them and then flees, allowing the PCs to rest again.... 12) Once every 33 days or so the party might encounter a revenant which could challenge a very low level party.[/I][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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