Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7153558" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Relative to 3e & earlier eds, that is, yes. </p><p>In a way that makes resource management less crucial: You have more resources spread out over the party to fall back on if one player messes up. Similarly, full casters all have cantrips to fall back on, so can be a bit less cautious with managing their spell usage, and they're all spontaneous, so there's no 'wasted slots,' also taking some pressure off. Finally, even the most resource-poor classes have something to 'nova' with, so class balances is a bit less sensitive to the shortened adventuring day than it was in 3e & earlier (though, by the same token, encounter balance can swing that much harder). </p><p></p><p> 'Just?' Spells were all-important, and much harder to research. Leomonds Tiny Hut, back in the day, offered little more than protection from environmental factors, enemies could attack or move right through it (as could allies, only the caster couldn't leave it), Rope Trick, though, sure, was a quick rest, but at 3rd, it was your only 2nd level spell and you had to choose Rope Trick when you memorized spells (no Stinking Cloud or Web or Invisibility), so that was quite the resource expenditure. Resource management loomed very large back in the day. 5e calls that back, but also makes it a deal less challenging for the above reasons (more classes have resources, short-rest recharges, at-will cantrips & spontaneous casting for all full casters).</p><p></p><p></p><p> In 3e there was a strong tendency to the 5MWD, your highest level spells were the most useful, offensively, and lower level spells could be used on buffs, protections, and utilities that could be layered over yourself & your party without limit. 'Nova's could thus be insanely powerful. DMs would just dial up the challenge until you needed the Nova-power to have a chance, and that playstyle rut just deepened. </p><p></p><p>You could play about the same way in 5e, if you wanted. You can simply dial up challenges without limit, and you can offload a fair proportion of your resources in a single encounter. Concentration limits the buff-layering thing, and some classes have short-rest recharges that in theory let them take on a second encounter just as hard, but those aren't huge factors. </p><p></p><p> 3e offered CR and encounter guidelines, and at least in theory was 'balanced' around a long and unpredictable enough day that Vancian casters would be challenged relative to spontaneous caters relative to non-casters. That days that long prettymuch never happened was the same problem than as it is now in 5e, but, at least, this time, we have clearer guidance (as promised) as to the 'right' number of encounters (6-8), /if you want to use resource pressure to balance classes & encounters/. </p><p></p><p>If you don't, you do still have a large bag of DM tricks with which to impose balance.</p><p></p><p></p><p> That wouldn't exactly evoke the classic game, now would it. Casters gain spells as they level, and everyone gains hps - that sense of advancement is key.</p><p></p><p>Caster dominance being enhanced and challenges being trivialized by the 5MWD, are also part and parcel of the authentic D&D experience.</p><p></p><p> Sure, until you turn the key and drive it. </p><p></p><p>Of course, driverless cars are just around the corner, but the driving public is more accepting of improvements than the D&D community.</p><p></p><p> I don't think those two opinions are entirely at odds...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7153558, member: 996"] Relative to 3e & earlier eds, that is, yes. In a way that makes resource management less crucial: You have more resources spread out over the party to fall back on if one player messes up. Similarly, full casters all have cantrips to fall back on, so can be a bit less cautious with managing their spell usage, and they're all spontaneous, so there's no 'wasted slots,' also taking some pressure off. Finally, even the most resource-poor classes have something to 'nova' with, so class balances is a bit less sensitive to the shortened adventuring day than it was in 3e & earlier (though, by the same token, encounter balance can swing that much harder). 'Just?' Spells were all-important, and much harder to research. Leomonds Tiny Hut, back in the day, offered little more than protection from environmental factors, enemies could attack or move right through it (as could allies, only the caster couldn't leave it), Rope Trick, though, sure, was a quick rest, but at 3rd, it was your only 2nd level spell and you had to choose Rope Trick when you memorized spells (no Stinking Cloud or Web or Invisibility), so that was quite the resource expenditure. Resource management loomed very large back in the day. 5e calls that back, but also makes it a deal less challenging for the above reasons (more classes have resources, short-rest recharges, at-will cantrips & spontaneous casting for all full casters). In 3e there was a strong tendency to the 5MWD, your highest level spells were the most useful, offensively, and lower level spells could be used on buffs, protections, and utilities that could be layered over yourself & your party without limit. 'Nova's could thus be insanely powerful. DMs would just dial up the challenge until you needed the Nova-power to have a chance, and that playstyle rut just deepened. You could play about the same way in 5e, if you wanted. You can simply dial up challenges without limit, and you can offload a fair proportion of your resources in a single encounter. Concentration limits the buff-layering thing, and some classes have short-rest recharges that in theory let them take on a second encounter just as hard, but those aren't huge factors. 3e offered CR and encounter guidelines, and at least in theory was 'balanced' around a long and unpredictable enough day that Vancian casters would be challenged relative to spontaneous caters relative to non-casters. That days that long prettymuch never happened was the same problem than as it is now in 5e, but, at least, this time, we have clearer guidance (as promised) as to the 'right' number of encounters (6-8), /if you want to use resource pressure to balance classes & encounters/. If you don't, you do still have a large bag of DM tricks with which to impose balance. That wouldn't exactly evoke the classic game, now would it. Casters gain spells as they level, and everyone gains hps - that sense of advancement is key. Caster dominance being enhanced and challenges being trivialized by the 5MWD, are also part and parcel of the authentic D&D experience. Sure, until you turn the key and drive it. Of course, driverless cars are just around the corner, but the driving public is more accepting of improvements than the D&D community. I don't think those two opinions are entirely at odds... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room
Top