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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7169812" data-attributes="member: 996">So you can hypothetical imagine what shoak1 or outsider is dealing with, but you didn't deal with it, yourself.   I suppose you could have cribbed from Fourthcore, had you decided to, as they were going for something of the same style.I actually have run 4e in something akin to an AD&D (even used Essentials to run an 0D&D adventure), and it's not the same kind of work shoak1 is doing, at least, for me it wasn't.  It was a matter of going all "Big DM" on the game and just doing it.  Not particularly harder than prep with 4e usually is - and 4e prep was awefully easy.   He confuses me, too.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  In GNS BS terms he's an "incoherent" combination of gamism & simulationism.  ;P  4e incoherence tended more towards gamism + narrativism.   There's another stumbling block, too.  If you wanted to run something a lot like AD&D in 2008, you could run Hackmaster or one of the emerging OSR games coming out, and you still can.  If you wanted to keep playing 3.5, there was lost of 3pp material for it, too, and the licence to make more was still out there, within a year, it had been clones as Pathfinder.So the impetus to make 5e work is much higher. There we go, assuming 'majorities' and statistics we don't have, again.But, that aside, 5e is not simply a return to AD&D, nor is it just a repudiation of 4e in submission to the h4ter victory in the edition war.  It's D&D for all D&Ders, past 4e fans included, and when it fails them, it fails just as much as if you'd cracked it open and found it harder than ever to get that AD&D feel out of it. The list of system artifacts and pointless details would be staggering, just as it was going from AD&D to 3e or 3e to 4e, but it also wouldn't really be the point.  There's no point to fixating on that stuff when you roll rev, it's going to be different, or there would be no point in having it.  (There are a few glaring examples, of course, like the Warlord, and the Defender Role.)It's really just a matter of basic qualities.  Balance, clarity, consistency.  You could run an encounter or even a non-combat challenge with an expectation that the difficulty would be something like what you intended.   Players could play the characters they wanted to, with some confidence that what they chose to model them would actually work something like it was meant to, and without having to apply ungodly system mastery to make some concept barely-viable, or keep others from dominating.  You could introduce new players to the game and they'd likely pick it up quickly - in constrast, it wasn't so great for returning players.A player who enjoyed 4e could get a similar experience from just the right DM in 5e.  A DM just has to rise to the challenge.</blockquote>

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