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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shoak1" data-source="post: 7170294" data-attributes="member: 54380">Let me crystalize my point here re the path D and D has taken:First, about me:  I have played wargames, board games, rpgs, card, and computer games extensively beginning in 1976ish.  First was D and D and wargames - then came the computer game versions of those along with Magic The Gathering.  Then came extensive computer games and the strategy board games like Eurogames and Ameritrash.  Played em all.  I've gone to dozens of conventions of all genres and probably averaged playing 30 hours a week for the last 40 years.  So I have extensive experience with gamers of all types.Back in the day D and D was huge.  But the influx of computer games and strategy board games started drawing peeps into Gamist mode, and they eschewed the Big Story and Big DM style of D and D.  So you had an aging non-growing D and D fan base.  Then out came 4e to attract the gamists.  But it went too far and alienated the D and D core.  So in an effort to recapture that aging core 5e comes out proclaiming to be for everyone.  The problem is that it was clearly made by Big DM and Big Story peeps who didn't really understand what really was needed to attract and keep the gamists (Big Challenge).  Thus sales are big - of course they are - the core has returned.  But its an aging core.  And I can tell you that while 5e might have better sales than 4e (I have no idea actually), its nowhere near as dominant of a market share of games in general as it used to be.  Its a sad remnant of its former self relegated to a niche market.  Many of its supporters on this forum actually proudly proclaim that its not for everyone and actively encourage those detractors in this forum to take it or leave it - to go play a board game or computer/video game if you dont like Big DM and/or want Big Challenge !!!!It's a shame really because 4e had the right idea - attract gamists and GROW!!!  But they went too far and we had a revolution - and the revolutionaries are zealous in their grip on the game.  These forums are a good example - dominated by Big DM and Big Story peeps (mostly old guard) - new players and DMs worried about balance get told they shouldn't keep their gamist thoughts and ideas like Big Challenge and DM Light ("Lemmee get this straight - you're saying our DM should just make stuff up and change rules as he thinks is best?  What kind of game is this?!?!?  DM Empowerment???  What about the players?!?!").  Now I see only two likely courses for D and D: a cycle of revolution counter revolution, or worse yet a slow and quiet death as the fan base ages.</blockquote>

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