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Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7177775" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Ultimately, the DM could always do whatever he wanted in any edition, but that hardly made all editions the same in terms of DM Empowerment, presentation, perception, community attitude, and impetus the system gives in needing, rather than merely allowing rulings, all contribute.</p><p></p><p>Take a diplomacy check in 3e, for a notorious instance, the DC are fixed in a table, and high as the ridiculous end was, characters could be optimized to hit them consistently.</p><p></p><p> That's very different guidance, though, isn't it? Based on drama & story.</p><p></p><p> To be fair, there wasn't any resolution system, either. The DM might call for almost anything - a bend-bars/lift-gates%, a roll under STR on a d20 or 3d6, an arbitrary n in 6 chance, etc...</p><p></p><p>Now, that's empowerment!</p><p></p><p> Well, 1s didn't automatically fail.. Yeah, don't get me started...</p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p> Like movement, sure, the player knows his speed. Maybe has something to do with the line 5e draws between move and action?</p><p></p><p> AD&D was notorious, in its day for having lots of rules, and it was very DM-empowering, the very thing 5e reached for - successfully, IMHO - with rulings-not-rules. It doesn't have much to do with the quantity of rules - 5e is still rules-heavy by any reasonable metric, and that, too, is part of it as it was in the TSR era, it's the qualities & presentation/resolution of those rules directly involving the DM, from basic declare-an-action resolution on.</p><p></p><p> I do equate a DM judgement call with the 'rulings' side of rulings-not-rules, yes. Even - heck especially - if the rules call for it.</p><p></p><p>That's part of how 5e Empowers the DM, by inserting DM rulings into the mechanics, so players learn to expect them (initially derided as DM-may-I play).</p><p></p><p>....</p><p></p><p>And, if I may direct your attention back to the elephant, the duration, requirements, and completion of rests stands out in contrast to the resolution of other actions, in being fixed by the rules and offering alternate, equally fixed, modules rather than calling for a ruling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7177775, member: 996"] Ultimately, the DM could always do whatever he wanted in any edition, but that hardly made all editions the same in terms of DM Empowerment, presentation, perception, community attitude, and impetus the system gives in needing, rather than merely allowing rulings, all contribute. Take a diplomacy check in 3e, for a notorious instance, the DC are fixed in a table, and high as the ridiculous end was, characters could be optimized to hit them consistently. That's very different guidance, though, isn't it? Based on drama & story. To be fair, there wasn't any resolution system, either. The DM might call for almost anything - a bend-bars/lift-gates%, a roll under STR on a d20 or 3d6, an arbitrary n in 6 chance, etc... Now, that's empowerment! Well, 1s didn't automatically fail.. Yeah, don't get me started... ;) Like movement, sure, the player knows his speed. Maybe has something to do with the line 5e draws between move and action? AD&D was notorious, in its day for having lots of rules, and it was very DM-empowering, the very thing 5e reached for - successfully, IMHO - with rulings-not-rules. It doesn't have much to do with the quantity of rules - 5e is still rules-heavy by any reasonable metric, and that, too, is part of it as it was in the TSR era, it's the qualities & presentation/resolution of those rules directly involving the DM, from basic declare-an-action resolution on. I do equate a DM judgement call with the 'rulings' side of rulings-not-rules, yes. Even - heck especially - if the rules call for it. That's part of how 5e Empowers the DM, by inserting DM rulings into the mechanics, so players learn to expect them (initially derided as DM-may-I play). .... And, if I may direct your attention back to the elephant, the duration, requirements, and completion of rests stands out in contrast to the resolution of other actions, in being fixed by the rules and offering alternate, equally fixed, modules rather than calling for a ruling. [/QUOTE]
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