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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7180666" data-attributes="member: 6785785">So I've read through the last several pages of this thread, and there has been some interesting discussion. I just ran the most recent session in my group's campaign on Tuesday night, and some interesting things came up in regard to rest that I thought I would mention here. So our group of PCs are currently on Athas. They aren't natives, but are instead planar visitors searching for something important to the ongoing campaign. In order to try and convey the different feel of Athas compared to more traditional fantasy worlds, I am making strong use of Exhaustion and Rest Mechanics.In our last session, the PCs had completed a quest they had been sent on by an order of warriors in the region north of the Tyr valley (beyond the town of Bitterwell along the Sea of Silt, for anyone curious). They had slain a powerful unique monster that plagued the area, and they were headed back to the warriors' fortress. The creature was served by a group of blind humanoids similar to halflings, but much more devious and fierce. These creatures scattered when their leader was slain, but then gathered in numbers to harry the PCs upon their trek back to the fortress. They did not actually attack, but tracked the PCs. One night, they approached the campsite, staying just close enough to be seen, but far enough to flee if they wanted. Their presence was detected by the PC on watch (and also by a Mordenkainen's Hound spell that had been cast). He diligently woke the rest of the PCs. The PCs remained aware of this horde of enemies nearby, and therefore were not able to fully resume their rest. So I had each PC who had taken a watch make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 12. Anyone who failed, did not benefit from a long rest. The party Wizard and Bard failed, while the Rogue, Fighter, Dwarven Cleric, and Ranger all succeeded. Effectively, the characters who would most be affected by lack of a long rest failed their check, and regained no spells. Now, some people may say "why didn't they just rest longer to make up for the time lost?" which is a good question. But as I'm sure anyone here would agree, sometimes when you try to rest, you simply cannot. Especially under such crazy circumstances (extreme environment, tribes of crazed halflings following you through the desert, and so on). To me, this is a clear "Rulings, not rules" kind of approach to solve the "problem". I did not limit my decision making to what is in the rule book, but instead decided "sometimes people can't rest even when they try".  I think that the best way to handle this problem is through the use of DM judgment, to adjust rules to fit specific circumstances, or to apply rules variations to achieve the desired effect. I think this is the game's expectation. I look at the DMG not so much as a list of rule variants, but as a list of examples of how to change the rules, with the intention that these examples will help a DM come up with his own.This is why I think that the only real answer to this problem is for the DM to use his judgment to come up with something that achieves what he wants. This may be situational or it may be something applied for all rests, it depends on what is wanted. I have tweaked rest mechanics at times when I thought there was a need (in Barovia I ruled that there could be no Long Rests outside of settlements, mentioned earlier in the thread), but I generally don't have a problem with the rest mechanics. I just think tweaking them from time to time can create an interesting effect. The goal that the DM is trying to achieve is going to play a huge part in what he may consider a solution. If the view is simply that the Rest mechanics are "broken" because players abuse the mechanics and are able to rest too easily, then the DM has to come up with something more suitable to how he wants the game to play. Alternatively, he can try and influence how his players play the game and how they view rest mechanics to be less rules-centric. If it's more of a flavor thing, then my approach above to tweak rest mechanics in certain areas or situations seems suitable. Either way, there's never going to be consensus on one fix....which is why I think they've come up with a basic mechanic, and they leave the "solution" to any perceived problems with that mechanic up to the individual groups.</blockquote>

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