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Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7184701" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Right, so then you agree this has worldbuilding implications. How many villages in modules have you seen with palisade walls? How many towns with stone walls? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course it's absurd -- <em>that's the point</em>. If I'm applying maximum deadly encounters per day to my adventurers so that they're challenged, then that area is stupid dangerous for non-adventures. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Because a believable world isn't filled with dragons as a common threat? I mean, sure, I could pack in a few beholders and a storm giant or two, but that strains credulity far more than a warband of orcs, don't you think?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, hang on. We <em>started</em> with the assumption that 3 deadly encounter units of monsters per day was a sound mechanical solution to the resting issue. And it is. But how do I determine what a deadly encounter is? Using the CR system. So, and follow closely here, I then point out that having that many deadly encounter units running around has some worldbuilding implications. To illustrate, I arbitrarily pick the beginning of Tier II (because it's a common level achieved by most games) and look at what deadly encounters are for that group. I do this with, you guessed it, the CR system, because that's how I find out what a deadly encounter is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, because a group of 150 warchiefs is much more believable from a worldbuilding standpoint. I think you're dodging and moving goalposts so much that you've completely forgotten the core point of my statement: the 3 deadly encounters a day solution to resting has serious worldbuilding implications. I think you've lost this because you're increasingly dwelling on red herrings and sidetracks and, when you get to the end of many of them, offer world building advice on how you can make that work. Which is, wait for it, exactly what I said has to happen. Towns have to have walls and dedicated defense forces. You end up with points of light as a campaign concept. Etc., Etc. When you aren't offering worldbuilding advice, you're ignoring any sense of worldbuilding and saying 'just use higher level orcs,' which ignores why there are all of these grouped higher level orcs instead of lots of regular orcs, or 'why are you using low CR monsters, use higher CR monsters,' which has it's own set of issues that I pointed out above.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you even paid attention to the ridiculous prices for silver weapons in the PH? Who the hell besides adventurers have these? Maybe a handful in a decent sized town, who's owners probably aren't a match for werewolves even armed with silver? And that ignores any real attempt to actually price what a silvered weapon should cost (much more) and the fact that it would be nearly useless as a weapon after a few swings. So, even ignoring realism to stick to game mechanics, comparing the cost of a silvered weapon to what the average townsfolk makes a day and how much living expenses cost and you end up with very, very few, owned by weirdos. Or you're postulating a professional army that provides equipment via taxation, and, if you follow that, you're spending a lot of taxes on werewolves attacking. Doesn't really work out buying silver swords for the militia at a cost that could pay the militia for a few years.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, then, you're backing off of the 3 deadly encounter units of monsters as a mechanical solution to the resting issue because it affects world building? Interesting point, I'll have to give it some thought.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7184701, member: 16814"] Right, so then you agree this has worldbuilding implications. How many villages in modules have you seen with palisade walls? How many towns with stone walls? Of course it's absurd -- [I]that's the point[/I]. If I'm applying maximum deadly encounters per day to my adventurers so that they're challenged, then that area is stupid dangerous for non-adventures. Because a believable world isn't filled with dragons as a common threat? I mean, sure, I could pack in a few beholders and a storm giant or two, but that strains credulity far more than a warband of orcs, don't you think? Okay, hang on. We [i]started[/i] with the assumption that 3 deadly encounter units of monsters per day was a sound mechanical solution to the resting issue. And it is. But how do I determine what a deadly encounter is? Using the CR system. So, and follow closely here, I then point out that having that many deadly encounter units running around has some worldbuilding implications. To illustrate, I arbitrarily pick the beginning of Tier II (because it's a common level achieved by most games) and look at what deadly encounters are for that group. I do this with, you guessed it, the CR system, because that's how I find out what a deadly encounter is. Sure, because a group of 150 warchiefs is much more believable from a worldbuilding standpoint. I think you're dodging and moving goalposts so much that you've completely forgotten the core point of my statement: the 3 deadly encounters a day solution to resting has serious worldbuilding implications. I think you've lost this because you're increasingly dwelling on red herrings and sidetracks and, when you get to the end of many of them, offer world building advice on how you can make that work. Which is, wait for it, exactly what I said has to happen. Towns have to have walls and dedicated defense forces. You end up with points of light as a campaign concept. Etc., Etc. When you aren't offering worldbuilding advice, you're ignoring any sense of worldbuilding and saying 'just use higher level orcs,' which ignores why there are all of these grouped higher level orcs instead of lots of regular orcs, or 'why are you using low CR monsters, use higher CR monsters,' which has it's own set of issues that I pointed out above. Have you even paid attention to the ridiculous prices for silver weapons in the PH? Who the hell besides adventurers have these? Maybe a handful in a decent sized town, who's owners probably aren't a match for werewolves even armed with silver? And that ignores any real attempt to actually price what a silvered weapon should cost (much more) and the fact that it would be nearly useless as a weapon after a few swings. So, even ignoring realism to stick to game mechanics, comparing the cost of a silvered weapon to what the average townsfolk makes a day and how much living expenses cost and you end up with very, very few, owned by weirdos. Or you're postulating a professional army that provides equipment via taxation, and, if you follow that, you're spending a lot of taxes on werewolves attacking. Doesn't really work out buying silver swords for the militia at a cost that could pay the militia for a few years. So, then, you're backing off of the 3 deadly encounter units of monsters as a mechanical solution to the resting issue because it affects world building? Interesting point, I'll have to give it some thought. [/QUOTE]
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