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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9020183" data-attributes="member: 7040941">You can assert that but all that really tells me is that you haven't played at high level very often and for whatever reason just let go of taking the game seriously whenever you approach it. Im sorry but I just have to snicker at this. If there was ever an objectively inaccurate way to describe 5e, that right there is it.This is a misapplication of the Oberoni fallacy. The issues aren't being dismissed by pointing out what the game expects, they're being put in a proper context so that an adequate solution can be found.You can't address a problem if you don't understand what the problem actually is, and coming to a mutually agreed upon view on it is critical to that. Going to books and looking at what the game is telling you it expects is part and parcel to that process of finding a mutual understanding.Dismissing it because you think the problem is being dismissed, when it isn't, is just wrong. And it has to be said too that contrary to your assertions not a lot of tables religiously start at level 1, many explicitly skip to level 3 at a minimum and when combined with the fact that the game also tells you not to do this if the players are already sufficiently familiar with the game, leads to the reality of the situation, that mutual understanding we need to reach so we can actually address the issue,  being that at most, you can claim that there should be a replacement for those levels that actually integrates with how people actually play the game. You cannot assert that these levels are so vital and inseparable from the game when most players skip them.As an aside, I don't know what the hell is up about this topic thats pulling in a bunch of apparent contrarians asserting things completely contrary to the zeitgeist but god damn is it exhausting. You know Ive been lurking on this forum for years prior to actually joining, and Ive read through entire topics all about these different things in 5e, and have even dug deeper into the Gygax days. I know for a fact that this forum has been representative of 5es reception similar to anywhere else on the internet, and I can actually say quite a few of the people in this topic are people I recall speaking in agreement with a lot of the things that, suddenly, are being asserted as falsehoods. Did I really trigger people that naughty word badly with my OP?</blockquote>

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