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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mouseferatu" data-source="post: 5170138" data-attributes="member: 1288">But it's not just from "our standpoint." It's how the game, and the facts of the cosmos, are written in most editions of D&D.The mortal world is the source of souls. It's the source of worship. It's the entire reason for the conflict between gods (and other outer-planar entities), and is literally the center of creation.This isn't the equivalent of taking all of space in sci-fi and claiming that Earth is at the center, and therefore must be of most importance. That is parochial (and ignorant). But in the metaphysical cosmos as written throughout D&D's existence, it's objective truth. There might be multiple mortal worlds (Eberron, Athas, etc.), but the mortal universe really is the focus.Obviously, one doesn't have to play it that way, and I'm not saying it's "wrong" to play it differently. But that is how the game's written, so I don't think it's a stretch to say it's how the game's embodiments of evil should treat it.Let's also not forget that a "mortal world-centric" view is not only consistent with D&D, but with almost every aspect of myth and fantasy that went into inspiring and creating D&D. Again, there's nothing wrong with playing it differently; but at its core, the game needs to support the basic archetypes on which it's built.Yes, a few who have additional ends in mind. But my PoV is that most do not. They really are about evil for the joy and satisfaction of it. They might get different sorts of satisfaction out of it, and they might have different methods for doing it, but ultimately, they do it because they like it--or, more accurately, because it's what they are. They literally have no choice about it; they couldn't stop any more than a human could decide to stop aging, or thinking. Again, as soon as you get away from that, you weaken the fiends' very existence as the cosmological/theological embodiments of pure evil, IMO.To me, fiends not focused on the mortal world would be the minority--and even they would want to throw down heaven or rule their own plane, ultimately, because it puts them in a better position to enjoy, and benefit from, the spreading of evil amongst mortals and claiming souls.Which is why I said "some." Not all, or most, or even a significant minority.This isn't about NPCs "meant to be killed" or not. I'm not talking about that.There are already plenty of evils in the game that have all sorts of motivations for what they do. To me, the whole point of the fiends is that they don't. As literal manifestations of evil incarnate, I think they must have, at the core of their motivations, nothing more than the desire--even the need--to commit evil.The corrupt priest, the tyrant king, the greedy dragon, the ancient lich, the twisted demigod, even the evil god--these have motives for their evil. But the devils and demons? They might be the ones who tempt these others into doing evil, but they aren't the ones with the complex motives. It completely changes what they are.Because they're not people. Making them care about philosophical/theological concerns, except for how they can use those to acquire more souls, is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of humanizing them. They don't care about such things, or at least they shouldn't, except so they can manipulate/lie about them better.Why? Seriously, what's the point? It's not like either faction is going to run out of real estate. IMO, any competition between fiends should be waged on the mortal realm, with the lives and/or souls of mortals as the prize, or within their own hierarchy, for a higher position.Again, I can see a few individual demons or devils launching a scheme that requires them to carve out some of the other faction's territory, but as a race? I cannot think of a solid reason why they should care.</blockquote>

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