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<blockquote data-quote="DonAdam" data-source="post: 6137872" data-attributes="member: 2446">I have a half-baked idea about how to handle ability scores and skills for both the basic version of Next (sans skills) and the advanced module with skills. It partly (or largely) divorces skill levels from experience and ties them to ability scores more closely to make the two versions closer to one another.A few things inspired it:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">I worry about DC's having to change if skills are optional. Ideally, basic and advanced characters could be run at the same table without too much difference in competence.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">I liked the idea, floated on message boards early on, that your ability scores are your auto-success numbers for most tasks. So if you had a 14 Str, you can auto-succeed on most DC 14 tasks.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's not a big concern but I worry just a bit about odd ability scores and feats being +1 to an ability score. Ideally you would &quot;get something&quot; for every bump to an ability score.</li>
</ul>I'm taking the way of calculating ability modifiers (half of [score - 10]) as given.Here's what I came up with:[CODE]Score&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Modifier&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Proficiency&nbsp; 6-7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp; 8-9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp; 10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; --&nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d4&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d4&nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d6&nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d6&nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d8&nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d8&nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d10&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d10&nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d12&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; d12[/CODE]Modifier: The modifier works as normal.Proficiency Die: The proficiency die is added to some skill checks (any non-attack, non-saving throw check to do stuff) in addition to the modifier.When you add the proficiency die works differently in basic (no skills) or advanced (with skills):<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Basic: Each class one or two Prime ability scores (or a choice of one or two off a small list). Any time you make a skill check for those abilities you add your proficiency die. So a Fighter might choose between Str, Dex, or Con. A Rogue might get Dex or Cha plus another Prime score depending on subclass.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Advanced: You have a skill list. When you make a skill check you add an appropriate ability modifier (which ability you use could be baked into the skills or based on the type of action you take). If you are trained in the relevant skill, you add the proficiency die for the relevant score to your skill checks.</li>
</ul>So a proficient character with a 15 Str rolls 1d20 + 1d8 + 2 for skill checks involving Strength (in basic) or with trained Strength skills (in advanced).Auto-Success: In either version, if you are proficient you can auto-succeed (&quot;take 10&quot;) on tasks with a DC equal to or lower than your ability score. Otherwise, you only auto-succeed on tasks with a DC of 10 or less.The table above means that your average roll with the proficiency die always exceeds your auto-success number by 2. Every time you increase an ability score, your average proficient skill check goes up by 1: the modifier goes up by 1 on even scores, the proficiency die steps up a size on odd scores.There are two obvious disadvantages:<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">As stated above, the connection between level and skills is far more tenuous here. This will bother folks who like a steep increase in character aptitude with experience levels.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">For those of you that like symmetry, the table is asymmetric. The same trick for generating the &quot;take 10&quot; results does not work for ability scores below 10. I'm perfectly okay with that but it might bother some.</li>
</ol>I think #1 is the only real concern, but it can be addressed several ways with feats:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ability scores and thus skill bonuses will tend to rise with level if 1 feat = +1 ability score.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feats can boost skills in various ways: giving Advantage on a given skill check, rolling twice/getting some minimum result on the proficiency die, or increasing the die size by one step.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Particular feats could be designed for each skill that enhance functionality (e.g., move at full speed while sneaking).</li>
</ul>These would be small bonuses but that fits with flat math. Any such feats that aren't powerful enough can be tweaked by increasing the number of skills affected.Tying proficiency die size to ability score also allows low-level NPC's to have expertise in certain skills. Kings don't need to be high level to be good at diplomacy. You can even imagine community statblocks that list the maximum die size for certain skills based on the size and nature of the community.One can also imagine feats that offer patches to those with a mismatch between ability scores and desired skills:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Unexpected Talent: Pick a skill. You become trained in it and your proficiency die becomes a d8.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Intimidating Strength: use your Strength modifier and proficiency die to intimidate. You are trained in intimidate.</li>
</ul>And of course there are a few possible variations:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Characters with scores lower than 10 might lower their auto-success number by their modifier.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The proficiency die might start at d4 for a 13 and go to d10, saving the d12 for someone with a 20 and some sort of Skill Focus. The auto-success numbers still work for that.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The advanced version might base the proficiency die on character level instead, but then you lose the nice math on auto-success.</li>
</ul>What do ya'll think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DonAdam, post: 6137872, member: 2446"] I have a half-baked idea about how to handle ability scores and skills for both the basic version of Next (sans skills) and the advanced module with skills. It partly (or largely) divorces skill levels from experience and ties them to ability scores more closely to make the two versions closer to one another. A few things inspired it: [list] [*]I worry about DC's having to change if skills are optional. Ideally, basic and advanced characters could be run at the same table without too much difference in competence. [*]I liked the idea, floated on message boards early on, that your ability scores are your auto-success numbers for most tasks. So if you had a 14 Str, you can auto-succeed on most DC 14 tasks. [*]It's not a big concern but I worry just a bit about odd ability scores and feats being +1 to an ability score. Ideally you would "get something" for every bump to an ability score. [/list] I'm taking the way of calculating ability modifiers (half of [score - 10]) as given. Here's what I came up with: [CODE] Score Modifier Proficiency 6-7 -2 -- 8-9 -1 -- 10 +0 -- 11 +0 d4 12 +1 d4 13 +1 d6 14 +2 d6 15 +2 d8 16 +3 d8 17 +3 d10 18 +4 d10 19 +4 d12 20 +5 d12 [/CODE] [B]Modifier:[/B] The modifier works as normal. [B]Proficiency Die:[/B] The proficiency die is added to [b]some[/b] skill checks (any non-attack, non-saving throw check to do stuff) [B]in addition to[/B] the modifier. When you add the proficiency die works differently in basic (no skills) or advanced (with skills): [LIST] [*]Basic: Each class one or two Prime ability scores (or a choice of one or two off a small list). Any time you make a skill check for those abilities you add your proficiency die. So a Fighter might choose between Str, Dex, or Con. A Rogue might get Dex or Cha plus another Prime score depending on subclass. [*]Advanced: You have a skill list. When you make a skill check you add an appropriate ability modifier (which ability you use could be baked into the skills or based on the type of action you take). If you are trained in the relevant skill, you add the proficiency die for the relevant score to your skill checks. [/LIST] So a proficient character with a 15 Str rolls 1d20 + 1d8 + 2 for skill checks involving Strength (in basic) or with trained Strength skills (in advanced). [B]Auto-Success:[/B] In either version, if you are proficient you can auto-succeed ("take 10") on tasks with a DC equal to or lower than your ability score. Otherwise, you only auto-succeed on tasks with a DC of 10 or less. The table above means that your average roll with the proficiency die always exceeds your auto-success number by 2. Every time you increase an ability score, your average proficient skill check goes up by 1: the modifier goes up by 1 on even scores, the proficiency die steps up a size on odd scores. There are two obvious disadvantages: [LIST=1] [*]As stated above, the connection between level and skills is far more tenuous here. This will bother folks who like a steep increase in character aptitude with experience levels. [*]For those of you that like symmetry, the table is asymmetric. The same trick for generating the "take 10" results does not work for ability scores below 10. I'm perfectly okay with that but it might bother some. [/LIST] I think #1 is the only real concern, but it can be addressed several ways with feats: [LIST] [*]Ability scores and thus skill bonuses will tend to rise with level if 1 feat = +1 ability score. [*]Feats can boost skills in various ways: giving Advantage on a given skill check, rolling twice/getting some minimum result on the proficiency die, or increasing the die size by one step. [*]Particular feats could be designed for each skill that enhance functionality (e.g., move at full speed while sneaking). [/LIST] These would be small bonuses but that fits with flat math. Any such feats that aren't powerful enough can be tweaked by increasing the number of skills affected. Tying proficiency die size to ability score also allows low-level NPC's to have expertise in certain skills. Kings don't need to be high level to be good at diplomacy. You can even imagine community statblocks that list the maximum die size for certain skills based on the size and nature of the community. One can also imagine feats that offer patches to those with a mismatch between ability scores and desired skills: [LIST] [*]Unexpected Talent: Pick a skill. You become trained in it and your proficiency die becomes a d8. [*]Intimidating Strength: use your Strength modifier and proficiency die to intimidate. You are trained in intimidate. [/LIST] And of course there are a few possible variations: [LIST] [*]Characters with scores lower than 10 might lower their auto-success number by their modifier. [*]The proficiency die might start at d4 for a 13 and go to d10, saving the d12 for someone with a 20 and some sort of Skill Focus. The auto-success numbers still work for that. [*]The advanced version might base the proficiency die on character level instead, but then you lose the nice math on auto-success. [/LIST] What do ya'll think? [/QUOTE]

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