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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8691331" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm going to avoid addressing the problematic topics and again focus on what I can, and that is that you have a false dichotomy in the midst of your argument.&nbsp; It's quite possible for alignment to be objective and still have everyone has a justification for what they believe and no considers themselves to be on Team Wrong.&nbsp; Like it's perfectly possible to believe both &quot;We are Team Evil.&nbsp; And we are Right.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp;In most D&amp;D cosmologies the cosmology doesn't address which alignment is right.&nbsp; Alignment is usually presented as a Great Wheel, or if you would &quot;a round table&quot; where peers are sitting, and it's possible that all or none of them are right.&nbsp; Which one is right is something you or your character will have to decide or at least, you'll have to come up with a reason why your character believes what they believe (whatever it is).&nbsp; But you can't appeal to the system for answers because it doesn't give you one.&nbsp; The &quot;Good&quot; motifs and beliefs do tend to line up with traditional answers for what is Good in Western society, but the alignment system itself doesn't force you to believe that Neutral Good is the most right way of looking at things.As noted earlier, you can make a really strong philosophical argument in favor of evil.&nbsp; In the real world I like to think I play for Team Good and that Team Good is right and correct, but the intellectual in me is quite capable of realizing that there are serious philosophical challenges to my beliefs that many intelligent and rational people disagree with and as such I probably not only can't know for 100% certainty whether what I believe is right and at the least I can't expect everyone to treat it as obvious that I am.&nbsp; Even if we had real world Detect Alignment, that problem wouldn't go away.&nbsp; I might be relieved to glow 'Mauve' or 'White' or whatever the bucket labeled 'Good' glowed, but it wouldn't prove that I was right, just that was in the bucket I intended to be in.I don't think it tell us really anything about personality.&nbsp; I think for example it's possible to be a LG miser or drunkard.&nbsp; You have vices even in people playing for 'team good'.&nbsp;&nbsp; Alignment though tells us something about where that breaking point is going to be where the inner quality shows (or doesn't) and how they feel about their vice and whether they are sorry for what they do.&nbsp; It's about when you go against your own personality because you believe you can be wrong, or whether you even have a belief system in which you think you can be wrong.&nbsp; But it's not personality.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8691331, member: 4937"] I'm going to avoid addressing the problematic topics and again focus on what I can, and that is that you have a false dichotomy in the midst of your argument. It's quite possible for alignment to be objective and still have everyone has a justification for what they believe and no considers themselves to be on Team Wrong. Like it's perfectly possible to believe both "We are Team Evil. And we are Right." In most D&D cosmologies the cosmology doesn't address which alignment is right. Alignment is usually presented as a Great Wheel, or if you would "a round table" where peers are sitting, and it's possible that all or none of them are right. Which one is right is something you or your character will have to decide or at least, you'll have to come up with a reason why your character believes what they believe (whatever it is). But you can't appeal to the system for answers because it doesn't give you one. The "Good" motifs and beliefs do tend to line up with traditional answers for what is Good in Western society, but the alignment system itself doesn't force you to believe that Neutral Good is the most right way of looking at things. As noted earlier, you can make a really strong philosophical argument in favor of evil. In the real world I like to think I play for Team Good and that Team Good is right and correct, but the intellectual in me is quite capable of realizing that there are serious philosophical challenges to my beliefs that many intelligent and rational people disagree with and as such I probably not only can't know for 100% certainty whether what I believe is right and at the least I can't expect everyone to treat it as obvious that I am. Even if we had real world Detect Alignment, that problem wouldn't go away. I might be relieved to glow 'Mauve' or 'White' or whatever the bucket labeled 'Good' glowed, but it wouldn't prove that I was right, just that was in the bucket I intended to be in. I don't think it tell us really anything about personality. I think for example it's possible to be a LG miser or drunkard. You have vices even in people playing for 'team good'. Alignment though tells us something about where that breaking point is going to be where the inner quality shows (or doesn't) and how they feel about their vice and whether they are sorry for what they do. It's about when you go against your own personality because you believe you can be wrong, or whether you even have a belief system in which you think you can be wrong. But it's not personality. [/QUOTE]

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