Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Rethinking humans...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AuraSeer" data-source="post: 1104204" data-attributes="member: 1331"><p>The concept is interesting, but if you want to justify it based on science, I think your reasoning is rather weak. If multiple humanoid races evolved simultaneously, the pressures on them must have been very nearly the same. There's no reason to think that, for instance, the orcish ancestors had it any easier than the human ancestors; unless they developed in some secluded place all their own, they'd have been subject to catastrophes or near-extinctions just as often.</p><p></p><p>If you're suggesting that any humanoid race could evolve to sapience without becoming adaptable, without developing mathematical ability, or without losing its fear of fire, you're going to need a very good argument to convince anyone at all.</p><p></p><p>Note that the human ancestors may even be the same group as the orcish ones (and the dwarven, the elvish, et cetera). The humanoids are still so closely related that they can interbreed and have fertile offspring. A biologist would probably conclude that they split from their common ancestor very recently, on the evolutionary timescale.</p><p></p><p>Of course we're talking about a fantasy world, so it's not a given that evolution happened at all. If the humanoids were divinely created, the deities could give them any abilities they chose. Isn't it an odd coincidence that the races all turned out to be approximately balanced?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I presume you're doing this only on the overland scale? A hustle is the same thing as taking two Move actions every round. If you remove that from the nonhumans' combat options, they'd almost become unplayable.</p><p></p><p>It also seems pretty harsh to stack penalties this way. A nonhuman must expend a precious feat just to move faster than a walk. If he does take the feat and make the slightest use of it, he becomes Fatigued and requires 8 hours of recovery. That's a very steep double price to pay just for an extra 3 miles of travel.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That means a dwarf with Con 20 can fight for approximately as long as a human with Con 10. Cripes. If you're going to go this far, why not just give all humans a +10 racial modifier to Con and have done with it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Those bonuses are so great as to be unreasonable. There's a lot of training encapsulated in that single skill point-- to say nothing of a feat-- and it doesn't make sense to let them be changed that easily.</p><p></p><p>The world's best human blacksmith, who has been working the forge every day of his life for the past 50 years, may have 23 ranks in his Craft skill. Say he takes six months off for a vacation. When he comes back, he can have swapped those skill ranks and become the world's best carpenter, or surgeon, or lute player? Meanwhile he'll have somehow unlearned everything about his old profession, so he has less smithing skill than his newest apprentice? That's downright silly.</p><p></p><p>Taken together, your changes make humans the only possible race for any reasonably useful character. If that's your goal then you've done great, otherwise you've got some fine tuning to do.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AuraSeer, post: 1104204, member: 1331"] The concept is interesting, but if you want to justify it based on science, I think your reasoning is rather weak. If multiple humanoid races evolved simultaneously, the pressures on them must have been very nearly the same. There's no reason to think that, for instance, the orcish ancestors had it any easier than the human ancestors; unless they developed in some secluded place all their own, they'd have been subject to catastrophes or near-extinctions just as often. If you're suggesting that any humanoid race could evolve to sapience without becoming adaptable, without developing mathematical ability, or without losing its fear of fire, you're going to need a very good argument to convince anyone at all. Note that the human ancestors may even be the same group as the orcish ones (and the dwarven, the elvish, et cetera). The humanoids are still so closely related that they can interbreed and have fertile offspring. A biologist would probably conclude that they split from their common ancestor very recently, on the evolutionary timescale. Of course we're talking about a fantasy world, so it's not a given that evolution happened at all. If the humanoids were divinely created, the deities could give them any abilities they chose. Isn't it an odd coincidence that the races all turned out to be approximately balanced? I presume you're doing this only on the overland scale? A hustle is the same thing as taking two Move actions every round. If you remove that from the nonhumans' combat options, they'd almost become unplayable. It also seems pretty harsh to stack penalties this way. A nonhuman must expend a precious feat just to move faster than a walk. If he does take the feat and make the slightest use of it, he becomes Fatigued and requires 8 hours of recovery. That's a very steep double price to pay just for an extra 3 miles of travel. That means a dwarf with Con 20 can fight for approximately as long as a human with Con 10. Cripes. If you're going to go this far, why not just give all humans a +10 racial modifier to Con and have done with it. Those bonuses are so great as to be unreasonable. There's a lot of training encapsulated in that single skill point-- to say nothing of a feat-- and it doesn't make sense to let them be changed that easily. The world's best human blacksmith, who has been working the forge every day of his life for the past 50 years, may have 23 ranks in his Craft skill. Say he takes six months off for a vacation. When he comes back, he can have swapped those skill ranks and become the world's best carpenter, or surgeon, or lute player? Meanwhile he'll have somehow unlearned everything about his old profession, so he has less smithing skill than his newest apprentice? That's downright silly. Taken together, your changes make humans the only possible race for any reasonably useful character. If that's your goal then you've done great, otherwise you've got some fine tuning to do. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Rethinking humans...
Top