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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5215396" data-attributes="member: 20323">In every discussion I've had or thread I've read about skill challenges (SCs) a series of common complaints about the SC system emerge. Thinking about it, I noticed that many of 4e's design philosophies seemed to stop when a skill challenge begins. A lot of my ideas came about from conceiving SC as a monster or a combat encounter.1. Incentivize don't punishProblem: There's a disincentive to participate with low skills because failure is worse than inaction.Solution A: Time Limit: Stalker0's sweet Obsidian SC system does this best! However, I'm trying to work with a positive incentive (think carrot, not stick) and maintain the basic framework of the SC as presented in RAW.Solution B: Escalating DC: The idea here is to force the players to use different skills by increasing the DC of repeat skill use. Again, this is more of a stick approach, even if effective.Solution C: Variable DC: This is what most RAW SCs do by dividing skill checks into easy/medium/hard categories. While this can be well done, a lot of times I've seen it turn into a guessing game. This is sort of a stick/carrot combination approach.Solution D: All Skills Available: Ok, this is where I go off the deep end. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> What if *every* skill was available during a SC? Think of combat - most powers work on most enemies, with the exception of immunity (which I hear the new monster design philosophy is moving away from in favor of vulnerabilities). I compare skills unavailable in a SC to a monster's immunities. In other words, not much fun; and when they do rarely appear, there should be 1 or 2 at most. This really requires us to expand our notion of a SC's scope, so it's not about negotiating with the duke, but it's about securing military aid *however* you want to go about it. Now, this creates another problem, which is...why wouldn't the PCs just spam their best skill if all skills are available?2. The PCs should have a motivation to change tactics, move around, and use varied powersProblem: High number of successes required before failure (or time limit) encourages tactical player to spam their best skill. This problem is magnified if all skills are available.Solution A: Arenas/Development: Imagine all the skills being divided into 3-6 "arenas", so in an investigation you might have the Docks, the Scene of the Crime, a Noble's Manor, and the Prison. Each of these areas has different skills that can be used there, so Athletics might not be useful at the Scene of the Crime but it *is* useful to climb thru the noble's manor house window. I think of "arenas" as akin to terrain. Likewise, changing conditions in the SC can change which skills become available. For example (like the bloodied condition) at 1 and/or 2 failures *something* happens. In other words, all skills are allowed, but there's a time and a place for each skill.Solution B: Jackpot Skills: Think of this as the opposite of auto-fail skills (aka the "save or die" of a SC), or as the SC's vulnerability. This includes auto-successes, rider effects, and other benefits in or outside of the SC.Solution C: Tactical Choices: Sometimes the individual effects of a success or failure may be almost or just as important as overall success in the SC. Give the players choices about how to use their skills. This ties in with the next design tenet...3. Each PC should feel special & have their chance to shineProblem: Once the SC begins every character is converted into a striker trying to rack up successes (i.e. damage)Solution A: Roles: Introduce the 4 roles into SCs. This will take a little work to sort out, but what I'm thinking is each role gets a choice between 2-3 options in a given SC about how a skill check is resolved. Think of this as what comes after the damage die in a power, the rider effect.Solution B: Critical Hits: This ties back in with the idea of jackpot skills, or SC vulnerabilities.Solution C: Degress of Success & Failure: The players should be able to see the extent of their success or failure as a result of the actions their PCs took. This could take a cue off of rituals (degrees of success) and skills like Acrobatics, Athletics, and Thievery (failure tolerance). So you don't just succeed, but you succeed with 0, 1, or 2 failures (or some other plot related detail specific to the SC). Likewise, you don't fail, but you fail with a certain # of successes.4. Exceptions-based designProblem: One size SC doesn't fit every situation. For example, a chase, an investigation, and a siege seem to have very different underlying structures. While DMG2 made headway in this regard, it seems like the community is pushing that envelope even more.Solution A: SC Templates: I was thinking that a series of templates for different SC scenarios could be created, perhaps even produced as a series in Dragon or published as a supplement.I'll try to post a sample "gathering troops" SC using these ideas later today...</blockquote>

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