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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 5216910" data-attributes="member: 75065">Quote:Originally Posted by Quickleaf <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/278377-rethinking-skill-challenges.html#post5215396" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/enw/buttons/viewpost.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></a> 1. Incentivize don't punishProblem: There's a disincentive to participate with low skills because failure is worse than inaction.(emphasis added)This is the number one problem with SCs. Solve it, and I think everything else falls into place.I think it's a general truism that for the heroic style that 4e espouses, you never, ever want "I do nothing" to be the optimal move for the player.Of course, how you solve it most effectively is tricky. Many proposed solutions, many good ideas. I often avoid this by implementing group skill checks: You want to Bluff? Of cousre you do, with that +14 Bluff modifier you have you wiley old Warlock. And you think your grumpy dwarven fighter can sit back and twidle his thumbs? Wrong! The Hobgoblin Captain of the Watch is no thickie! He has to deal with goblinoids all day long... not the most trustworth or honest bunch, now are they? He will of course talk to the Warlock, but he will also observe his companions and read from their body language to see if his words ring true.  Mechanically: Everyone except the Warlock rolls Bluff at the appropriate DC (usually medium, but good rp can reduce this to easy and dumb ideas can increase it to hard); any failure will increase the Warlocks Bluff DC by 2. Critical successes or brilliant ideas (instant success) can decrease it by 2. Everyone is involved. Everyone is encouraged to RP. Everyone has to get over the horde of army ants swarming the swamp floor? Why would only the Goliath Barbarian have to roll? How are the others going to get past? Piggyback? So you can climb through the trees using athletics or swing through the vines using acrobatics. So here's how I do it: One person can choose to 'Lead' the check, usually at a Hard DC. Success means the others can follow at an easy or medium DC depending on the situation. If someone leads Athletics, this does not affect those who wish to use acrobatics and vice versa. Overall success is calulated so: 4/5 successes = 1 overall success3/5 successes = 0 success (and usually leads to a slightly more compromised situation as the challenge continues)2/5 success = 1 overall failure (and leads a highly compromised situation as the challenge continues).If this is too harsh then you can do 3/5 is success, 2/5 neither and 1/5 failure. Leaders can allow a reroll on a failed check 1/challenge (usually at the cost of a HSurge) Any individual failures, whether overall success is achieved or not, have consequences related to the situation that have to be played out and resolved using secondary skills. Argghh, you've fallen and are hanging inches above the swarming ants... Failures here can lead to further loss of healing surges or other relevant penalties which will effect the continuation of the challenge. I also have degrees of success on an individual check affect the rest of the group. After succeeding past the army of red ants the group stumble into an area riddled with quicksand. Lookout! The group's 'scout' rolls perception on a Hard DC. Failure means the warning comes to late and all party members make a SThrow with a penalty to the roll in order to avoid falling in. Success means the warning comes just in time. All make a SThrow with a bonus. However a success that is 5 or more above the required DC means the warning is so swift and effective that the danger is completely avoided. Those that fail their saving throws are sinking in the quicksand, and the group has to resolve the situation using secondary skills and 'good ideas'. Failure to do so is penalised with loss of Hsurges or other appropriate penalties that affect the continuation of the challenge. I prefer danger to be an element of my challenges. I also want everyone involved whether they are natural athletes or complete incompetent fumblefingers. I want everyone to have their chance to lead/shine, but that doesn't mean everyone else can hide behind them in the shadows, disguising their own incompetencies.  Anyway, I find elements like these lead to very fun, involving, challenging and interesting cahllenges.</blockquote>

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