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<blockquote data-quote="manduck" data-source="post: 7025231" data-attributes="member: 6801718"><p>I see what you're saying and different things do work for different tables. Some people like Final Fantasy and others like Dark Souls. Each group figures out what works for them. Though I think the consequence in your scenarios is the character death itself. That player loses their character and gear (potentially) when their character dies. So that is the consequence. I'm specifically saying that imposing some kind of level loss for that consequence is actually the punishment. Tomb of Horrors is indeed a classic and challenging dungeon. Now try to play Tomb of Horrors when you lose a level every time you die in that dungeon. It goes from challenging to impossible. The threats constantly increase while your capability constantly decreases. The players go into an adventure like Tomb expecting to die multiple times. The challenge is the fun. Though punishing the players with a level loss at every death goes beyond creating a challenge. It goes into the territory of eliminating all possible chance for success. Risk and reward can certainly make a game fun. People in groups that like a good challenge certainly take the good with the bad. They enjoy those consequences. Though the consequence of a character death is something that can always happen, unless the group specifically decides against it. It's part of the risk of the game. To make it a real challenge or to give that character death some weight, I've seen and played in groups that remove magical resurrection. You can have gear break and other resource losses in the game to add to the challenge. </p><p></p><p>I tend to fall in that middle space as well. I'm just saying that I wouldn't impose further penalty of level loss on a character death. I found it kind of discourages playing the game. No one want to take those risks as much if they know it will cost them a level or two should they die. The death of the character is a pretty big consequence itself. Especially if you can't bring that character back.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="manduck, post: 7025231, member: 6801718"] I see what you're saying and different things do work for different tables. Some people like Final Fantasy and others like Dark Souls. Each group figures out what works for them. Though I think the consequence in your scenarios is the character death itself. That player loses their character and gear (potentially) when their character dies. So that is the consequence. I'm specifically saying that imposing some kind of level loss for that consequence is actually the punishment. Tomb of Horrors is indeed a classic and challenging dungeon. Now try to play Tomb of Horrors when you lose a level every time you die in that dungeon. It goes from challenging to impossible. The threats constantly increase while your capability constantly decreases. The players go into an adventure like Tomb expecting to die multiple times. The challenge is the fun. Though punishing the players with a level loss at every death goes beyond creating a challenge. It goes into the territory of eliminating all possible chance for success. Risk and reward can certainly make a game fun. People in groups that like a good challenge certainly take the good with the bad. They enjoy those consequences. Though the consequence of a character death is something that can always happen, unless the group specifically decides against it. It's part of the risk of the game. To make it a real challenge or to give that character death some weight, I've seen and played in groups that remove magical resurrection. You can have gear break and other resource losses in the game to add to the challenge. I tend to fall in that middle space as well. I'm just saying that I wouldn't impose further penalty of level loss on a character death. I found it kind of discourages playing the game. No one want to take those risks as much if they know it will cost them a level or two should they die. The death of the character is a pretty big consequence itself. Especially if you can't bring that character back. [/QUOTE]
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