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<blockquote data-quote="manduck" data-source="post: 7026285" data-attributes="member: 6801718"><p>I never saw anyone come back more than once in older edition games I played. It was difficult to begin with (which is totally fine) and we were fine with playing something else. Plus, like you said, it gets increasingly difficult and drains con every time. Interesting system. </p><p></p><p>I don't think anyone here is advocating the removal of all consequences from a game. There is no "flaw" in modern gaming where all consequences are removed from games these days. It's not make a character and then auto-win the entire adventure or campaign. That's just classic nostalgia, or "in may day!" thinking that isn't really true. No one here is saying they had players drop out of gaming because something bad happened to their character either. What we're saying is that in our circles, the arbitrary level loss slapped on a replacement character doesn't seem to make sense and has impacted the fun of players we know. If we happen across Wights in an adventure, so be it. We deal with it, knowing what we're in for. It makes the adventure tense and dangerous. We all know the effects can be temporary and find ways to overcome the challenge. Having a character die and then the DM says "well make another character one level lower from the rest of the group" doesn't make a lot of sense. It's not a challenge for the player to overcome, like something they would face in an adventure. It's an artificial way of try to increase the difficulty for that player or to penalize that player when all they did was play. Unless the entire group agrees ahead of time that replacement characters come back at a lower level because they like that kind of thing. In which case, game on. Plenty of people like a kind of retro feel to their games with these kinds of rules. Though keeping everyone at the same level or letting replacement characters come in at the same level is by no means coddling a player or removing consequences from the game. </p><p></p><p>That's the perspective I'm coming at it from. If a player wanted to drop out of a game anytime something happened to their character, I doubt they'd be at anyone's game table.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="manduck, post: 7026285, member: 6801718"] I never saw anyone come back more than once in older edition games I played. It was difficult to begin with (which is totally fine) and we were fine with playing something else. Plus, like you said, it gets increasingly difficult and drains con every time. Interesting system. I don't think anyone here is advocating the removal of all consequences from a game. There is no "flaw" in modern gaming where all consequences are removed from games these days. It's not make a character and then auto-win the entire adventure or campaign. That's just classic nostalgia, or "in may day!" thinking that isn't really true. No one here is saying they had players drop out of gaming because something bad happened to their character either. What we're saying is that in our circles, the arbitrary level loss slapped on a replacement character doesn't seem to make sense and has impacted the fun of players we know. If we happen across Wights in an adventure, so be it. We deal with it, knowing what we're in for. It makes the adventure tense and dangerous. We all know the effects can be temporary and find ways to overcome the challenge. Having a character die and then the DM says "well make another character one level lower from the rest of the group" doesn't make a lot of sense. It's not a challenge for the player to overcome, like something they would face in an adventure. It's an artificial way of try to increase the difficulty for that player or to penalize that player when all they did was play. Unless the entire group agrees ahead of time that replacement characters come back at a lower level because they like that kind of thing. In which case, game on. Plenty of people like a kind of retro feel to their games with these kinds of rules. Though keeping everyone at the same level or letting replacement characters come in at the same level is by no means coddling a player or removing consequences from the game. That's the perspective I'm coming at it from. If a player wanted to drop out of a game anytime something happened to their character, I doubt they'd be at anyone's game table. [/QUOTE]
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