Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3233551" data-attributes="member: 4937">I've never played it, but it looks really cool.But its an entirely different module than the original one.The original module was largely 'fair', in that it followed a certain logic, the puzzles were all solvable through very careful play and a certain cautious approach to the tomb, and most of the module was largely independent of character ability and instead relied almost entirely on player ability.  A party of 1st level characters could actually get quite far into the module indeed, and were only marginally disadvantaged against a higher level party (most traps didn't allow saving throws, there was very little combat and most of it was with generally weak monsters by the standards of a high level party, failure usually meant death and not hit point attrition, and so forth).  So ToH was for the most part, a true test of player dungeon crawling skill.  I got quite far into it with a 10th level thief with a couple potions of flying and a rope of climbing as a 14 year old.  The experience was both terrifying and exhilerating.  The very first trap was in a since the hardest, because until you encounter the first trap you don't understand how different the 'rules' by which the dungeon works are going to be different than what you are used to.  After that, you just get paranoid and your fine.  The party made it to the Demi-Liche on the first try, and then we died horribly.It's really only the Demi-Liche which is singularly unfair.  I don't believe that any party who didn't know the weaknesses ahead of time really stands a chance, and there was no way from the module to get clues on how to beat the Demi-Liche.  If the party doesn't have the right (almost random) spells prepared and doesn't know to use them and doesn't have the right equipment, it doesn't matter how good you are.  You've really only got one round to beat it before things go bad, and you have to play that round perfectly in order to do enough damage that the you'll be able to win despite losing a character each round thereafter.  Does anyone here claim to have beat the Demi-Liche with a DM that wasn't helping them out and without having read the module or a right up on demi-liches beforehand?  Color me skeptical.The 'Return' is a totally different module.   Sure, both are 'meat grinders', but defeating Return depends heavily on 'character skill' more so even than player skill.  'Return' is very combat heavy, and requires a heavily twinked out party to defeat it even if the players are very skilled.   'Return' is not a fair module, in that even if you play cautiously and well you still are going to have to go through the meat grinder.  There is no avoiding it.  And 'Return' even more so than the original, really punishes the party in arbitrary ways.  The infamous Devil's Head is a flashing neon sign compared to arbitrary ways in which 'Return' will kill you.</blockquote>

Verification