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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7612655" data-attributes="member: 15700">Because it was.&nbsp; Especially compare to later editions, and especially compared to 5e.&nbsp; You seem to be forgetting a lot of differences.* Hit die was lower in 2e.&nbsp; Wizards used a d4 for hit points, for example.* You stopped getting HP above level 9 from said HD, but instead got a very tiny amount depending on class* Saving throws.&nbsp; In 2e, a lowly venomous creature could kill you in one failed roll.&nbsp; 5e?&nbsp; Not even a risk.&nbsp; Even for deadly creatures like a medusa, in 5e it's &quot;Oh, you failed?&nbsp; That's OK. You just can't move.&nbsp; You get another chance to avoid it.&quot;&nbsp; And before someone says at higher levels you succeeded anyway, that's not true.&nbsp; A 10th level PC in 2e still had roughly a 50% chance of failing, depending on class/ST type* saving throws part II.&nbsp; Items had saving throws in 2e.&nbsp; Every time you got hit with acid, or dragon's breath, or even fell from a decent distance, you had to make saving throws for your items.&nbsp; All those magic items didn't last forever* non magical healing.&nbsp; 2e didn't have hit dice, and it didn't have heal to max after every long rest automatically.&nbsp; That's a tremendous amount of extra healing in 5e compared to 2e* you couldn't use your lower spells in higher spell slots like you can in 5e.&nbsp; A 10th level priest in 2e had 4/4/3/3/2 spells.&nbsp; That's 4 cure light, 3 cure serious, and 2 cure critical spells.&nbsp; 9 healing spells provided you didn't cast any other spell.&nbsp; Compare to a 5e cleric at 4/3/3/3/2, each one could be used to cast healing--15 healing spells.* 2e had level draining* 2e didn't have potions of healing as a common item you could buy.&nbsp; You had to find it in an adventure* In 5e, every PC is pretty competent in skills even at level 1.&nbsp; In 2e, only rogues had exploration skills, and they sucked until higher level.&nbsp; Even with the improvement on skill advancement over 1e's systemThen look at iconic monster comparisons.&nbsp; And adult red dragon in 5e has a 19 AC and it's breath: 18d6.&nbsp; And that's a creature designed for a party of 17th level.&nbsp; An adult red in 2e had AC -5 (25 in 5e terms), breath weapon did 12d10+6, and was NOT meant for a 17th level party, but about half that.&nbsp; A 10th level fighter in 5e would have almost 100 hp.&nbsp; A&nbsp; 10th level 2e fighter would have 65-70.&nbsp; A 10th level wizard in 5e has 40-45 hp.&nbsp; A 10th level 2e magic user has 25.&nbsp; An equal level 2e party has almost half the hp of a 5e party, a fraction of the healing capability, and is put up against the same power of dragons twice as soon as their 5e counterparts would face (level wise).2e had rot grubs, and green slimes that killed you in minutes.&nbsp; And a ton of monsters that were flat out immune to almost everything a party would be carrying. So yeah, compared to 5e, 2e was very much fantasy fraking Vietnam.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7612655, member: 15700"] Because it was. Especially compare to later editions, and especially compared to 5e. You seem to be forgetting a lot of differences. * Hit die was lower in 2e. Wizards used a d4 for hit points, for example. * You stopped getting HP above level 9 from said HD, but instead got a very tiny amount depending on class * Saving throws. In 2e, a lowly venomous creature could kill you in one failed roll. 5e? Not even a risk. Even for deadly creatures like a medusa, in 5e it's "Oh, you failed? That's OK. You just can't move. You get another chance to avoid it." And before someone says at higher levels you succeeded anyway, that's not true. A 10th level PC in 2e still had roughly a 50% chance of failing, depending on class/ST type * saving throws part II. Items had saving throws in 2e. Every time you got hit with acid, or dragon's breath, or [I]even fell from a decent distance[/I], you had to make saving throws for your items. All those magic items didn't last forever * non magical healing. 2e didn't have hit dice, and it didn't have heal to max after every long rest automatically. That's a tremendous amount of extra healing in 5e compared to 2e * you couldn't use your lower spells in higher spell slots like you can in 5e. A 10th level priest in 2e had 4/4/3/3/2 spells. That's 4 cure light, 3 cure serious, and 2 cure critical spells. 9 healing spells provided you didn't cast any other spell. Compare to a 5e cleric at 4/3/3/3/2, each one could be used to cast healing--15 healing spells. * 2e had level draining * 2e didn't have potions of healing as a common item you could buy. You had to find it in an adventure * In 5e, every PC is pretty competent in skills even at level 1. In 2e, only rogues had exploration skills, and they sucked until higher level. Even with the improvement on skill advancement over 1e's system Then look at iconic monster comparisons. And adult red dragon in 5e has a 19 AC and it's breath: 18d6. And that's a creature designed for a party of 17th level. An adult red in 2e had AC -5 (25 in 5e terms), breath weapon did 12d10+6, and was NOT meant for a 17th level party, but about half that. A 10th level fighter in 5e would have almost 100 hp. A 10th level 2e fighter would have 65-70. A 10th level wizard in 5e has 40-45 hp. A 10th level 2e magic user has 25. An equal level 2e party has almost half the hp of a 5e party, a fraction of the healing capability, and is put up against the same power of dragons twice as soon as their 5e counterparts would face (level wise). 2e had rot grubs, and green slimes that killed you in minutes. And a ton of monsters that were flat out immune to almost everything a party would be carrying. So yeah, compared to 5e, 2e was very much fantasy fraking Vietnam. [/QUOTE]

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