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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7612707" data-attributes="member: 996">Also, the meaning of &quot;that's a wash&quot; - maybe it's not a kiwi idiom?These two statements are in no way contradictory.&nbsp; Seriously, 1e psionics was just weird, random, barely-useable, and not particularly less broken than 2e, just not something you could gain access to merely by choosing a class. Possible.&nbsp; By the time I migrated to 2e, I'd modified 1e rather extensively, and continued freely modding 2e.&nbsp; Of course, everyone I knew did that, so ::shrug:: talking about what AD&amp;D did or didn't do is often an exchange of variants we thought were rules and options we thought were default...&nbsp;True of the wizard &amp; rogue, yeah.&nbsp; Not of everyone else, though, Fighters've been d10 the whole time <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(:" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; (:"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname="(:" />:sigh:: 'cept for 4e of course, the eternal exception to all general statements about D&amp;D)5e do have a lotta hps, almost as many as unlimited-CON 3e characters - but then 3e &amp; 5e monsters dish more damage, too.&nbsp;'Name level,' sure, which varied with class, but by 9th the game wasn't that deadly anymore.&nbsp; &nbsp;well, a /lowly/ one, like a giant centipede, might just make you sick.&nbsp; And a 2nd level Slow Poison could bring you right back.And what his save bonuses from items and whatever else added up to.&nbsp; SoDs were very real back in the day, but so were attempts to mitigate and avoid them.&nbsp; A /first/ level cleric could have a 50/50 poison save.&nbsp; A low level dwarf might have a quite good one, too. By 10th, the fighter's saves would've improved 5 times.&nbsp; You must be looking at the poor-to-mediocre matrix of the Thief &amp; Wizard, and assuming no items, even though it seemed like every 1st level module had a ring of protection, and there were numerous other such items.&nbsp; &nbsp;One of the least-used/most-conveniently-forgotten rules I've ever seen - only weapon vs armor type seemed less popular.&nbsp; That said, the few times it did get used - hilarious.&nbsp; But old-school characters /were/ so much their items, that destroying those was worse than character death.&nbsp; Afterall, you could be raised.&nbsp;In a practical sense, if you stopped to heal up after being really battered, you rested until your Cleric (or equiv) had prepped-and-cast enough spells to heal you all up, /and/ recharged a full slate.&nbsp; Maybe that was a day, maybe several, or even a week (probably not).&nbsp; &quot;Slow natural healing&quot; was academic.&nbsp;No, they just got better as you leveled, without having to be put in a higher level slot.&nbsp; sheesh…Yeah, OK, we played AD&amp;D differently, I can see that.&nbsp; We probably play 5e differently, too.&nbsp; 1st level characters seem to die at my 5e table more than often enough to establish the fear of death.&nbsp; Not s'much after 1st, but once they've had a PC croak, or a TPK, the impression is set.…BTW, to the OP:&nbsp; did I miss the answer to the question &quot;what, about 2e, is specifically 'medieval' in it's fantasy?&quot;Because, I mean, Dark Sun, not medieval, Planescape, downright post-modern.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7612707, member: 996"] Also, the meaning of "that's a wash" - maybe it's not a kiwi idiom? These two statements are in no way contradictory. Seriously, 1e psionics was just weird, random, barely-useable, and not particularly less broken than 2e, just not something you could gain access to merely by choosing a class. Possible. By the time I migrated to 2e, I'd modified 1e rather extensively, and continued freely modding 2e. Of course, everyone I knew did that, so ::shrug:: talking about what AD&D did or didn't do is often an exchange of variants we thought were rules and options we thought were default... True of the wizard & rogue, yeah. Not of everyone else, though, Fighters've been d10 the whole time (::sigh:: 'cept for 4e of course, the eternal exception to all general statements about D&D) 5e do have a lotta hps, almost as many as unlimited-CON 3e characters - but then 3e & 5e monsters dish more damage, too. 'Name level,' sure, which varied with class, but by 9th the game wasn't that deadly anymore. well, a /lowly/ one, like a giant centipede, might just make you sick. And a 2nd level Slow Poison could bring you right back. And what his save bonuses from items and whatever else added up to. SoDs were very real back in the day, but so were attempts to mitigate and avoid them. A /first/ level cleric could have a 50/50 poison save. A low level dwarf might have a quite good one, too. By 10th, the fighter's saves would've improved 5 times. You must be looking at the poor-to-mediocre matrix of the Thief & Wizard, and assuming no items, even though it seemed like every 1st level module had a ring of protection, and there were numerous other such items. One of the least-used/most-conveniently-forgotten rules I've ever seen - only weapon vs armor type seemed less popular. That said, the few times it did get used - hilarious. But old-school characters /were/ so much their items, that destroying those was worse than character death. Afterall, you could be raised. In a practical sense, if you stopped to heal up after being really battered, you rested until your Cleric (or equiv) had prepped-and-cast enough spells to heal you all up, /and/ recharged a full slate. Maybe that was a day, maybe several, or even a week (probably not). "Slow natural healing" was academic. No, they just got better as you leveled, without having to be put in a higher level slot. sheesh … Yeah, OK, we played AD&D differently, I can see that. We probably play 5e differently, too. 1st level characters seem to die at my 5e table more than often enough to establish the fear of death. Not s'much after 1st, but once they've had a PC croak, or a TPK, the impression is set. … BTW, to the OP: did I miss the answer to the question "what, about 2e, is specifically 'medieval' in it's fantasy?" Because, I mean, Dark Sun, not medieval, Planescape, downright post-modern. [/QUOTE]

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