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Revamp of the Skills System
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<blockquote data-quote="Drawmack" data-source="post: 708189" data-attributes="member: 4981"><p>First, let's take a look at the way that class/cross-class skills work currently.</p><p></p><p><strong>What is a class skill for max ranks?</strong></p><p>A class skill is any skill that is a class skill for any of your character's classes.</p><p></p><p><strong>What is a class skill for skill points/rank?</strong></p><p>When you level a character you get skill points based on the class you are leveling. So if you are a rog/ftr and you level the fighter all the rogue skills with cost 2 points/rank but your max ranks will still increase by 1 and not 0.5.</p><p></p><p><strong>What about exclusive skills?</strong></p><p>Exlcusive skills cannot be taken as cross class skills. However, you can spend cross class points on them if they are a class skill for any of your classes.</p><p></p><p><strong>What are Max Ranks?</strong></p><p>Class Skills max ranks are chr lvl + 3</p><p>Cross Class Skills max ranks are (chr lvl +3)/2</p><p></p><p><strong>What is the actual problem with this that we are discussing here?</strong></p><p>It limits the classes because the max ranks of cross class skills never allow a fighter to be as good at hiding as a rogue. This needs to be over come to allow for flaxibility.</p><p></p><p><strong>Are there any easy ways to do this?</strong></p><p>A couple have been mentioned.</p><p></p><p>1) There is the expert style system. Each class is given a point rating based on its usefullness and then each class is given a number of points to spend purchasing skills at first level. This keeps the classes balanced but also alows more modifiability in the classes.</p><p></p><p>Benefits: The system only requires a change to the character creation process. While it makes this process a bit more time consuming it is a once and done cost.</p><p></p><p>Drawbacks: This requires assigning a cost to every skill in the system which can be time consuming and arbitrary as some skills are more important in different games. Therefor each GM needs to make this list themselves. It also makes adding skills to the game more difficult.</p><p></p><p>2) My feat system. Create a feat that takes 1 non-exlusive skill and makes it a class skill.</p><p></p><p>Benefits: Allows for additional class skills to modify the classes without changing the core system. Easy to implement. No rules changes to confuse experienced players.</p><p></p><p>Drawbacks: Favors feat based classes as they have more feats to burn. However those classes also lack skill points so this is pretty much self-balancing.</p><p></p><p>3) (not previously mentioned) Make the upper limit for all skills be chr lvl +3 but keep everything else about the system the same. So a rogue who specifically trains, as part of their job, to do certain things gets to purchase ranks in those things for less skill points then a fighter who can only study those things in his spare time. Allows max ranks the same but double the cost of buying those ranks.</p><p></p><p>Benefits: Small change to the current system that should have a low learning curve. Does not affect internal class balance. Makes for smooth integration into existing campaign. Is generic.</p><p></p><p>Drawbacks: Classes with lots of skill points can take cross class skills much more easily then classes with very few skill points. So a rogue with the ability to ride is much easier then the fighter with the ability to sneak.</p><p></p><p>4) (not previously mentioned) Background bonus. Give them two class skills added to their normal class list based on their background. So your wizard was a rodeo champion as a kid, he gets ride.</p><p></p><p>Benefits: No rules changes at all. Very easy to implement.</p><p></p><p>Drawbacks: Hard to implement into ongoing campaign. Easy to abuse.</p><p></p><p>So there are 4 very simple ways to get about the same effect your going for with this huge and cumbersome system you propose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Drawmack, post: 708189, member: 4981"] First, let's take a look at the way that class/cross-class skills work currently. [b]What is a class skill for max ranks?[/b] A class skill is any skill that is a class skill for any of your character's classes. [b]What is a class skill for skill points/rank?[/b] When you level a character you get skill points based on the class you are leveling. So if you are a rog/ftr and you level the fighter all the rogue skills with cost 2 points/rank but your max ranks will still increase by 1 and not 0.5. [b]What about exclusive skills?[/b] Exlcusive skills cannot be taken as cross class skills. However, you can spend cross class points on them if they are a class skill for any of your classes. [b]What are Max Ranks?[/b] Class Skills max ranks are chr lvl + 3 Cross Class Skills max ranks are (chr lvl +3)/2 [b]What is the actual problem with this that we are discussing here?[/b] It limits the classes because the max ranks of cross class skills never allow a fighter to be as good at hiding as a rogue. This needs to be over come to allow for flaxibility. [b]Are there any easy ways to do this?[/b] A couple have been mentioned. 1) There is the expert style system. Each class is given a point rating based on its usefullness and then each class is given a number of points to spend purchasing skills at first level. This keeps the classes balanced but also alows more modifiability in the classes. Benefits: The system only requires a change to the character creation process. While it makes this process a bit more time consuming it is a once and done cost. Drawbacks: This requires assigning a cost to every skill in the system which can be time consuming and arbitrary as some skills are more important in different games. Therefor each GM needs to make this list themselves. It also makes adding skills to the game more difficult. 2) My feat system. Create a feat that takes 1 non-exlusive skill and makes it a class skill. Benefits: Allows for additional class skills to modify the classes without changing the core system. Easy to implement. No rules changes to confuse experienced players. Drawbacks: Favors feat based classes as they have more feats to burn. However those classes also lack skill points so this is pretty much self-balancing. 3) (not previously mentioned) Make the upper limit for all skills be chr lvl +3 but keep everything else about the system the same. So a rogue who specifically trains, as part of their job, to do certain things gets to purchase ranks in those things for less skill points then a fighter who can only study those things in his spare time. Allows max ranks the same but double the cost of buying those ranks. Benefits: Small change to the current system that should have a low learning curve. Does not affect internal class balance. Makes for smooth integration into existing campaign. Is generic. Drawbacks: Classes with lots of skill points can take cross class skills much more easily then classes with very few skill points. So a rogue with the ability to ride is much easier then the fighter with the ability to sneak. 4) (not previously mentioned) Background bonus. Give them two class skills added to their normal class list based on their background. So your wizard was a rodeo champion as a kid, he gets ride. Benefits: No rules changes at all. Very easy to implement. Drawbacks: Hard to implement into ongoing campaign. Easy to abuse. So there are 4 very simple ways to get about the same effect your going for with this huge and cumbersome system you propose. [/QUOTE]
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