Revamping the Revenant. (Feedback please)

[Mistah J]

Salutations!

I thought that the Revenant Template from the 3.0 Monsters of Faerun book could use a little tweaking and this is what I came up with:

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REVENANT
(The flavour text remains the same with the sole exception of removing the part about the six month time limit a revenant has to complete its quest.)

"Revenant" is a template that can be added to any aberration, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid or outsider with an Int score of at least 3 (referred to hereafter as the "base creature").

Size and Type: The base creature's type changes to undead (gaining the augmented subtype). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
Hit Dice: Increase to d12
Special Attacks: A revenant retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the abilities described below.
Vengeful Strike (Ex): Any attack the revenant makes with a natural or manufactured weapon against its killer deals double damage (or triple damage on a succesful critical hit).
Paralyzing Stare (Ex): At the beginning of every encounter with the revenant, its killer must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the revenant's Hit Dice + the revenant's Charisma modifier) or be paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.
Special Qualities: A revenant retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains those listed below.
Turning Immunity (Ex): A revenant cannot be turned, destroyed, rebuked, or commanded.
Immunity to Tansformation (Ex): In addition to the regular immunities for being undead, revenants are immune to any effect that would change its shape or form. Disintegration effects still function normally but if brought to 0 hit points in this manner, the revenant is not truly destroyed and is subject to its Rejuvenation ability (see below).
Fast Healing (Ex): Each round, a revenant heals an amount of hit points equal to its HD.
Unholy Toughness (Ex): A revenant gains a bonus to its hit points equal to its Charisma modifier X its Hit Dice.
Find the Guilty (Ex): So long as a revenant and its killer are on the same plane of existence, the revenant will know which direction its killer can be found in and how far away he is. If the killer is on another plane, the revenant can attempt a Wisdom check (DC: 15) to still locate its target. This ability does not allow the revenant to traverse the planes, only to learn which plane its killer is on.
Rejuvenation (Su): In most cases, it is difficult to destroy a revenant through combat: Though "destroyed", the revenant will restore itself in 1d4 days and begin its hunt anew. The only way to truly destroy the revenant is to determine the reason for its existence and correct whatever problem keeps it from a final rest. In many cases only the death of its killer will suffice, but sometimes an alternative method is possible (such as a thief returning a stolen heirloom). Until this condition is met however, destroying the revenant will only delay the inevitable.
Abilities: A revenant gains a +4 to its Strength and a +4 to its Charisma. Being an undead creature it has no Constitution score.
Climate/Terrain: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Same as base creature +3
Treasure: As base creature or none.
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: -


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So that's it. What do you think? I am open to all suggestions and I'm very new at this sort of thing so if you think I've misjudged the CR adjustment please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[the Jester]

I'd say CR +3- this really ups the power level of a creature significantly because it's really hard to truly defeat it.

 

[Mistah J]

But the Ghost...

I'd say CR +3- this really ups the power level of a creature significantly because it's really hard to truly defeat it.

Your absolutely right that the power of the template has increased. After all, the original version was a CR +1 and I knew that I had brought it past that for sure. The reason I chose CR +2 is because that is the same as the Ghost template which also grants the Rejuvenation ability and I didn't think that the Revenant template granted more power than the Ghost template.


Edit: Now that I think about it, perhaps this thread was better suited for the Creature Catalog Forum. Oops!

 

[the Jester]

I think between Unholy Toughness and Fast Healing 10 a revenent is significantly better than a ghost, but ymmv. It also lacks a lot of a ghost's limitations (such as being tied to a place, incorporeal and therefore unable to easily affect the material world).

 

[Mistah J]

Touche

You make excellent points, CR +3 it is!

Thanks

 

[Louis the Rogue]

I really like your new template; the revenant theme is wonderful for any campaign setting, and seriously needed a revision. I've even found that they make excellent characters, particularly if you're looking for a Spawn or Legacy of Kain archetype.

After reviewing your template, I decided to give it a Level Adjustment of +4, and accordingly made a human revenant ranger. After playtesting it, I'd like to suggest a couple of changes for the sake of game balance.

Change: Fast Healing 10 to Fast Healing 5
Reason: When I sent my 1st level revenant (ECL 5) into battle against two 2nd level fighter NPC's, I found that a fast healing of 10 simply prevented them from doing enough damage to significantly impair him (in fact, it took both of them doing above average damage to even make a dent). Fast healing 5 is on par with vampires, and certainly still useful without becoming broken.

Addition: Vulnerability: While all revenants are posessed of a supernatural resilience, they have something else in common as well - all revenants were the victims of murder in life. Accordingly, a revenant has a thematic weakness (specified by the DM) directly related to their cause of death. For example, a revenant who was burned alive in life might have fire vulnerability (+50% damage from fire attacks).
Reason: The reason for this one is as much about theme as it is balance, and was actually suggested by a fellow DM when I opted to put your template into use for a PC in a game he'll be running shortly. The theme, of course, is that every good revenge-driven character seems to have their own kryptonite; for example, Jason Vorhees would have "water powerlessness" and only be able to take partial actions in water (specifically, Crystal Lake).
In terms of game balance, this weakness is best applied to revenant PC's, as it helps to keep them within the +4 Level Adjustment by countering some of their strengths with an (usually) obvious weakness.

Again, I really appreciate your template; it has been extremely helpful in designing my undead slayer character. Hopefully the feedback enclosed will help you as well.

 

[Mistah J]

Holy Threadromancy!

Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad it is working out so well for you, I must admit that the thought of giving it a Level Adjustment for PCs never crossed my mind - but I guess it's a viable option!

As for your suggestions, thank you very much. You raise some interesting points and the least I could do is report my initial thoughts:

1) Fast Healing: Your right. For lower CR revenants, fast healing 10 is too much and now that I think about it, for higher CR ones it isn't enough - PCs would be able to deal much more damage per round. So much that its fast healing simply couldn't keep up. So how about this - the revenants fast healing ability is dependant upon its Hit Dice, say, on a one for one basis? Thus a 5 HD revenant would have fast healing 5, a 13 HD one would have fast healing 13 and so forth.

2) Vulnerablity: This one has a lot of merit. The problem with creating a weakness that is specifically related to the revenants death is that they are only created through murder. You could say that a revenant who was murdered by fire (burned at the stake for example), or by water (tied up and the tossed overboard) would have a vulnerablity to these things but what about the one that was created simply because he was stabbed? A vulnerablity to swords? What about the one that was strangled?

But like I said, I like your suggestion - so what about this instead: A revenant that is presented with a physical connection to its former life becomes paralyzed, with no save, for as long as the connection is in view. Furthermore, while held in this state, the revenant no longer benefits from its fast healing ability. The connection must be one of significance or strong emotion in order to work against the revenant (an item with strong sentimental value, or even a still living loved one would suffice, while a simple travelling cloak and other basic posessions would not).


How about that?


Edit: Oh! Most Importantly.. welcome to the boards!

 

[the Jester]

I just wanted to chime in with another welcome for you, Louis!

Mistah J, once again I applaud your take on the revenant. I think changing the fast healing to equal their HD is a good move, but I think that rendering them essentially helpless with their weakness is going too far. Maybe give them a save, or make them staggered and cut their fast healing in half, or...

 

[Mistah J]

Mistah J, once again I applaud your take on the revenant.

Aww shucks.. tweren't nothin..

I think changing the fast healing to equal their HD is a good move, but I think that rendering them essentially helpless with their weakness is going too far. Maybe give them a save, or make them staggered and cut their fast healing in half, or...

..or it just keeps them at bay like a vampire with a holy symbol? Use a standard action to "present" and the revenant can't approach them... how is that?

 

[Louis the Rogue]

Holy Threadromancy!

Thanks for your kind words! I'm glad it is working out so well for you, I must admit that the thought of giving it a Level Adjustment for PCs never crossed my mind - but I guess it's a viable option!

As for your suggestions, thank you very much. You raise some interesting points and the least I could do is report my initial thoughts:

1) Fast Healing: Your right. For lower CR revenants, fast healing 10 is too much and now that I think about it, for higher CR ones it isn't enough - PCs would be able to deal much more damage per round. So much that its fast healing simply couldn't keep up. So how about this - the revenants fast healing ability is dependant upon its Hit Dice, say, on a one for one basis? Thus a 5 HD revenant would have fast healing 5, a 13 HD one would have fast healing 13 and so forth.

2) Vulnerablity: This one has a lot of merit. The problem with creating a weakness that is specifically related to the revenants death is that they are only created through murder. You could say that a revenant who was murdered by fire (burned at the stake for example), or by water (tied up and the tossed overboard) would have a vulnerablity to these things but what about the one that was created simply because he was stabbed? A vulnerablity to swords? What about the one that was strangled?

But like I said, I like your suggestion - so what about this instead: A revenant that is presented with a physical connection to its former life becomes paralyzed, with no save, for as long as the connection is in view. Furthermore, while held in this state, the revenant no longer benefits from its fast healing ability. The connection must be one of significance or strong emotion in order to work against the revenant (an item with strong sentimental value, or even a still living loved one would suffice, while a simple travelling cloak and other basic posessions would not).


How about that?


Edit: Oh! Most Importantly.. welcome to the boards!

Thanks to everyone for the welcome!

As I said in my last post, revenants are an extremely PC-worthy undead, if for no other reason than the fact that they don't suffer the excruciating loss of hit points common to other undead characters.

Fast Healing; I agree that 5 is too low for higher-level PC's (not to mention epics, where it would barely make a difference). The increase by HD is an excellent idea, although making it equal to their HD is unprecedented in the system to the best of my knowledge (even a fast healing granting template such as the anarchic creature from Manual of the Planes gives it out in much smaller doses, never so much as surpassing fast healing 5). Definitely in need of playtesting to know for sure.

Vulnerability: Granted, an energy-specific vulnerability will not work for every revenant, but honestly the "vulnerability" title is something of a misnomer. It would be perfectly acceptable to substitute a powerlessness for a vulnerability. For example, the stabbed revenant might have powerlessness (can only take partial actions within so much a distance, say 10 ft?) in the presence of either swords (this is too restricting and would make the character nigh-useless in battle), a specific type of sword (what if it was stabbed by a rapier?), or THE sword that took its' life (this will make the inevitable battle against the revenant's killer that much more dramatic). Just a suggestion.

Also, just for kicks, I gen'd up a sample revenant using your template with the variants I had suggested (minus any new stuff, as that had not yet come to my attention). Our sample revenant is Nobe Phane, the obligatory "revenge-driven undead ninja". Enjoy!

Nobe Phane: Male human revenant ninja 6; CR 10; Medium undead (augmented humanoid); HD 6d12+18; hp 57; Init +5; Spd 30 ft.; AC 20, touch 20, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +4; Grp +6; Atk or Full Atk +8 melee (1d4+3 plus 2d6 (1d6 backlash)/18-20, +1 vicious kukri) or +11 ranged (1d4+2/19-20, +2 hand crossbow); SA ghost step (invisible), ki dodge, ki power, paralyzing stare, poison use, sudden strike +3d6, vengeful strike; SQ acid vulnerability, fast healing 5, find the guilty, great leap, rejuvenation, trapfinding, turning immunity; SV Fort +2, Ref +10, Will +4; AL LN; Str 14, Dex 16, Con –, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 17.
Skills and Feats: Climb +13, Disable Device +10, Disguise +10, Hide +14, Jump +19, Listen +11, Move Silently +14, Search +10, Spot +11, Survival +2 (+4 following tracks), Tumble +18; Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack.
Acid Vulnerability (Ex): To reflect his death at the hands of an acid-related trap, Nobe takes 50% more damage than usual from acid attacks.
Ki Power (Su): Nobe may use his ki powers (ghost step or ki dodge) 5 times per day. Additionally, if his ki pool is not empty, he gains a +2 bonus on Will saves (this bonus is not factored into the above statistics).
Paralyzing Stare (Ex): Will DC 16 negates.
Possessions: +1 vicious kukri, +2 hand crossbow, +4 gloves of Dexterity, +2 ring of protection, elixir of hiding (8), elixir of sneaking (8), potion of inflict moderate wounds (4), 3 pearls (worth 3 pp each), 2 gp.