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Revel's End... magi-tech that jumps the shark!
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8929849" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>The problem with this entire post is that you are the one decontextualising the Forgotten Realms - or rather trying to retro-contextualise it to be what it was in the 1990s. The first and most basic fact of the Forgotten Realms is that The Forgotten Realms is the default setting of Dungeons and Dragons and has been for the majority of the lifetime of Dungeons and Dragons. The second fact is as D&D changes so do the Forgotten Realms. To the point that they literally rewrote the cosmology with every single new edition (except 3.5) in order to fit that setting.</p><p></p><p>Most of the Magitech being complained about, in particular, the Continual Flame and Arcane Lock spells are second level spells. They are fundamentally a part of the Forgotten Realms because its core identity is that of the default D&D setting, and they <em>are</em> Magitech. And when you say that the Realms magicians wouldn't use explicitly common second level spells for their intended purposes you're saying that they are all aescetics or possibly even all Diogenes. Certainly you're implying a uniformity of thought and purpose among mystics in that they all choose to eschew the use of common and easily accessible spells in favour of either being miserly or the virtue of physical/magical works.</p><p></p><p>Also the presence of a one-of-a-kind prison based on philosophical lines (the Panopticon) doesn't say "not mystics". Mystics aren't all people who sit round with their thumbs up their backsides contemplating their own navels and for a more active mystic to have thoughts on crime and punishment and want to put their ideas into practice I see as entirely on brand. As for it being a panopticon, Jeremy Bentham (who came up with the idea) thought the panopticon was a fine design not just for prisons but for hospitals and schools. And it being possibly a form of torture? Solitary confinement absolutely <em>is</em> a form of torture, but the people who came up with it were lawful good Quakers interested in rehabilitation and who thought leaving people alone with just a Bible would help. And realised very quickly that that had been a really bad idea.</p><p></p><p>And getting to a couple of your specific critiques:</p><p></p><p>This is the only good point I can see you have made. That doesn't mean there won't be - or that the Lords' Alliance built it themselves rather than inherited it from a powerful mystic or group of mystics. Would that have been a nice but irrelevant sidebar? Yes. Is it necessary for the adventure? No.</p><p></p><p>And this appears to be entirely your invention. From the adventure:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>"To be imprisoned in Revel’s End, one must have committed a serious crime against one or more of the member cities and been sentenced to a lengthy period of incarceration (typically a year or more).</em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>Each member of the Lords’ Alliance assigns one representative to Revel’s End, and together the representatives form a parole committee called the Absolution Council."</em></p><p>Or to sum up it's explicitly not a black site but a maximum security prison (something I'm sure you can see the need for) and there is access to a parole board. And all people there were, directly contrary to your assertions, explicitly imprisoned judicially. I see no problem here with a lawful good prison governor.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8929849, member: 87792"] The problem with this entire post is that you are the one decontextualising the Forgotten Realms - or rather trying to retro-contextualise it to be what it was in the 1990s. The first and most basic fact of the Forgotten Realms is that The Forgotten Realms is the default setting of Dungeons and Dragons and has been for the majority of the lifetime of Dungeons and Dragons. The second fact is as D&D changes so do the Forgotten Realms. To the point that they literally rewrote the cosmology with every single new edition (except 3.5) in order to fit that setting. Most of the Magitech being complained about, in particular, the Continual Flame and Arcane Lock spells are second level spells. They are fundamentally a part of the Forgotten Realms because its core identity is that of the default D&D setting, and they [I]are[/I] Magitech. And when you say that the Realms magicians wouldn't use explicitly common second level spells for their intended purposes you're saying that they are all aescetics or possibly even all Diogenes. Certainly you're implying a uniformity of thought and purpose among mystics in that they all choose to eschew the use of common and easily accessible spells in favour of either being miserly or the virtue of physical/magical works. Also the presence of a one-of-a-kind prison based on philosophical lines (the Panopticon) doesn't say "not mystics". Mystics aren't all people who sit round with their thumbs up their backsides contemplating their own navels and for a more active mystic to have thoughts on crime and punishment and want to put their ideas into practice I see as entirely on brand. As for it being a panopticon, Jeremy Bentham (who came up with the idea) thought the panopticon was a fine design not just for prisons but for hospitals and schools. And it being possibly a form of torture? Solitary confinement absolutely [I]is[/I] a form of torture, but the people who came up with it were lawful good Quakers interested in rehabilitation and who thought leaving people alone with just a Bible would help. And realised very quickly that that had been a really bad idea. And getting to a couple of your specific critiques: This is the only good point I can see you have made. That doesn't mean there won't be - or that the Lords' Alliance built it themselves rather than inherited it from a powerful mystic or group of mystics. Would that have been a nice but irrelevant sidebar? Yes. Is it necessary for the adventure? No. And this appears to be entirely your invention. From the adventure: [INDENT][I]"To be imprisoned in Revel’s End, one must have committed a serious crime against one or more of the member cities and been sentenced to a lengthy period of incarceration (typically a year or more).[/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][I][/I][/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT][I]Each member of the Lords’ Alliance assigns one representative to Revel’s End, and together the representatives form a parole committee called the Absolution Council."[/I][/INDENT] Or to sum up it's explicitly not a black site but a maximum security prison (something I'm sure you can see the need for) and there is access to a parole board. And all people there were, directly contrary to your assertions, explicitly imprisoned judicially. I see no problem here with a lawful good prison governor. [/QUOTE]
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