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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 2495078" data-attributes="member: 9053">There are quite a few changes, actually. First edition skills were little rules systems all to themselves, while second edition has a unified system where each skill has an associated attribute, and checks are made using a unified mechanic. As far as combat goes, you have free, half and full actions, a surprise round, roll once, cyclical initiative, a full action called charge that lets you move twice your base movement and then make an attack, a full round action calles swift attack that is required if you want to make multiple attacks, a disengage option that voids the free attack you receive from moving away from a target when you're engaged, and a delay action that costs a half action but allows you to take another half action later on in the round. The rules for WFRP v2 borrowed heavily from D20, but they also borrowed from other sources as well and also have innovative qualities to them. I think Chris Pramas looked at the original edition, decided on the things that were important to the game (its core if you will) and then decided to use a common-sense, don't reinvent the wheel approach for the rest of it. I'm glad that's what he did, since it makes playing WFRP easier for me, and also makes it an easier sell to my fellow gamers. That's the approach Chris talks about in his excellent designer's notes, and I think it's at the heart of what Ryan is talking about too. For me, what makes Warhammer special is the career system and the damage/critical hit rules. Both of those rules made it in relatively unchanged. The things that were changed were largely some of the wonky rules that may have made sense back at the time, but really don't make for a fluid game anymore.  To make those changes, Chris went with what has been tested and successful in the last few years, and also was smart enough to go with what the audience he was looking for would actually want to see. Much of the time that makes WFRP derivative of D20, but those certainly aren't it's only influences. And that makes sense. What do I mean? Having played some of the Dying Earth roleplaying game, I think it uses excellent design and has very elegant rules. These rules would have been awful to borrow from for WFRP! So did Chris Pramas make a derivative game entirely from D&D? Of course not! He made a game using the best mechanics he had available to him to simulate a rules-medium, slightly gritty fantasy game. He took from his source, and them came up with some innovative rules, and also took from the existing world of games. That's something that every game designer does, at least every good one! Much of the time the best mechanics came from WFRP first edition, but sometimes they came from systems with similar target audiences, which includes D&D. Was that such a hard thing? --Steve</blockquote>

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