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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4300761" data-attributes="member: 40961">The experience of the new players I've introduced to 4e has been the opposite of this.  They have all found the books to be VERY new player friendly.  Each race and class comes with a discussion of what sort of combinations might be favorable and a discussion of what ability scores to emphasize.  Skill selection is simple- new players look at the list of skills, and say "I want to be good at this, and this, and this."  and that's it.  No more explaining to them why putting 1 rank into Disable Device is about the same as putting no ranks into it.  Power selection is quick as well.I don't get this.  You're moving the bar.  Your prediction was that the game would play like Talisman, where there are no secrets because the plot is automated.  This is NOT the same as magic items being in the PHB.  If players knowing the rules for magic items makes the game have no secrets, I haven't played a game with secrets, ever, in my life.  But that's ok, because last I checked the sorts of secrets that were important in your prediction were secrets in the plotline, and those are exactly as they always have been.It strikes me as exactly the same game as its always been, except with a shift towards making combat interesting instead of lame.You moved the bar again.   Your prediction was that the game would emphasize one evening scenarios with long term plots being only optional.  Instead, the game emphasizes a 4 to 6 hour session, but the published "scenarios," generally referred to as "adventures" as they have been since the dawn of time, take much longer than that.This is all triply ironic, since the reality is that the game has moved in the opposite direction you believe it has.  I cut my teeth on D&D with a boxed set containing a couple maps of dragon lairs and rules for three plotless dungeon crawl adventures.  Each was designed to be played in a single evening, and was pure combat.  That was back in the 80s.  I can't even imagine a product like that being produced these days.  Nowadays its all about plot, characterization, and long term campaigning.</blockquote>

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